Best Oil and Why ?!

[The Vyzitor]

So upon further review, Redline 5w20 is a pretty perfect oil for those concerned about running thicker than the recommended 0w20, with only one major exception.

first, according to their stated spec, Redline 5w20 has a kinematic visc of 9.0cSt @ 100°C, which is comfortable in the upper reaches of the 20 grade specification. (9.5cSt being the max)

second, according to their stated spec, Redline 5w20 also has a HTHS visc of 3.0. This is actually within the realm of a 30 grade (30 grade HTHS can be as low as 2.9) and well above the average for most 20 grade of 2.6 to 2.7

third, Redline 5w20 has a viscosity index of only 147. If I understand this correctly, this is a strong indication that the oil is basically largely a straight grade SAE 20 or near to it (SAE 16 maybe?) with very minimal addition of viscosity improvers... but happens to meet the cold flow requirements to be considered a multi grade 5w20. Amsoil had an oil in the past that pulled off a similar trick. It was a straight grade 30, but the flow characteristics allowed them to fit a 10w30 profile I believe.
This would also explain Redline 5w20’s outstanding HTHS number for a 20 grade... as a 20 grade with minimal added VII, it would be EXTREMELY resistant to shearing other viscosity loss.

the ONLY major drawback in my opinion, is the lack of true API approval... and the additive pack is questionable for claiming LSPI mitigation like an API SN Plus oil.

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[bigdogpapa]

Participation in referral programs isn't new. The website possibly obtain commissions for its further progress, recommending products and helping them choose. Are you really surprised? There is no cheating here...

May I humbly suggest you read a blog that has no advertisers and backs up the findings with science. 540ratblog.wordpress.com

 

[Bunhyung]

May I humbly suggest you read a blog that has no advertisers and backs up the findings with science. 540ratblog.wordpress.com

For as long as it is, it should definitely be read in it's entirety. Extraordinarily useful information there. Most everything people on this forum espouse and theorize about oil and manufacturer recommendations, can be thrown right out the window.

 

[Gruber]

third, Redline 5w20 has a viscosity index of only 147. If I understand this correctly, this is a strong indication that the oil is basically largely a straight grade SAE 20 or near to it (SAE 16 maybe?) with very minimal addition of viscosity improvers... but happens to meet the cold flow requirements to be considered a multi grade 5w20. Amsoil had an oil in the past that pulled off a similar trick. It was a straight grade 30, but the flow characteristics allowed them to fit a 10w30 profile I believe.
This would also explain Redline 5w20’s outstanding HTHS number for a 20 grade... as a 20 grade with minimal added VII, it would be EXTREMELY resistant to shearing other viscosity loss.

No, it doesn't work this way.... A straight 30 "weight" oil is 30W30. Straight 20 "weight" oil is 20W20. Each has a viscosity index that's lower than 147. VI 147 means it's a multigrade oil, which thickens at low temperatures less than any straight mineral oil.

It's just that 5W20 is "less multigrade" than 0W20, 5W30, 0W30, 10W40, 0W40.... because the change from 20 to 5 is not so large. That's why it has a smaller VI than any of these. But all 5W20 oils have a similar VI. That's what 5W20 designation means - the magnitude of the VI. So, 10W30 can't by definition be a straight 30, because straight 30 is designated as 30W30.

 

[Gruber]

debating oil brands is like debating what brand of bottled water is better

I hope you can taste the differences between various brands of bottled water... They can be very different.

 

[The Vyzitor]

No, it doesn't work this way.... A straight 30 "weight" oil is 30W30. Straight 20 "weight" oil is 20W20. Each has a viscosity index that's lower than 147. VI 147 means it's a multigrade oil, which thickens at low temperatures less than any straight mineral oil.

It's just that 5W20 is "less multigrade" than 0W20, 5W30, 0W30, 10W40, 0W40.... because the change from 20 to 5 is not so large. That's why it has a smaller VI than any of these. But all 5W20 oils have a similar VI. That's what 5W20 designation means - the magnitude of the VI. So, 10W30 can't by definition be a straight 30, because straight 30 is designated as 30W30.

Amsoil disagrees. They literally market the below pictured oil as passing specification for both a 10w30 multigrade and a SAE 30 straight grade.

basically would be a 30W oil with little to no VIIs to shear down. However, since it's heavily group IV basestock it's viscosity numbers meet 10W30 specs. The 10w30 rating just means that it passed a cold crank simulator test at X temperature to receive that multi-viscosity rating. it is likely a straight 30 weight, not an intentionally formulated 10w-30, but since they pass the test, they can be labeled 10w-30.

Oils with minimal to no viscosity improvers are discussed here on BITOG.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4739988/all/straight-weight_20_oil

 

[Gruber]

I doubt Amsoil disagrees with what I said (show me where). Amsoil is only maybe a bit bulshitting in their advertising, if they indeed make anything special out of it (do they?). They can only claim it's a 10W30 oil that is not as vulnerable to deterioration with time and use as some other multigrade oils, because it achieves its multigrade viscosity with less additives, so it's "heavy duty." Just another expensive oil that can allegedly last for a gazillion miles..... Advertised as "long life" to some market sections and as "heavy duty" to others, but in reality it's the same thing...

It's still what's called a multigrade oil. All that "mutigrade viscosity" means is "not like natural mineral oils." Multigrade viscosity characteristics can be achieved either by the properties of the synthetic base oil itself (only to some extent in practice) or by additives.

Basically any 10W30 oil is a SAE 30 oil. Meeting the SAE 30 specifications is nothing to boast about.

 

[RehabJP]

Liqui Moly Special Tec AA 0W-20 Its SN Plus ILSAC GF5. Meets all the requirements for Honda guidelines but really if you are looking for good oil on a budget Amazon Basic Full Synth would do you just fine. Its actually pretty good oil and don't take my word for it lots of independent tests and I have had several samples I have sent into the lab out of other cars and it holds up as well as if not better than some of the more expensive brands like Mobile 1, AMSOIL, Royal Purple and others.

 

[Gruber]

Liqui Moly Special Tec AA 0W-20 Its SN Plus ILSAC GF5. Meets all the requirements for Honda guidelines but really if you are looking for good oil on a budget Amazon Basic Full Synth would do you just fine. Its actually pretty good oil and don't take my word for it lots of independent tests and I have had several samples I have sent into the lab out of other cars and it holds up as well as if not better than some of the more expensive brands like Mobile 1, AMSOIL, Royal Purple and others.

Amazon motor oil is a rip off. How is Mobil 1 more expensive? 5qt of 0W30 Mobil 1 ILSAC GF-6A is $22.38. Amazon doesn't even offer this. Savings of $2? I would have to be crazy to buy generic motor oil by mail order when I can get brand name motor oil today for the same price, made by a big company like Mobil 1 with laboratories and teams of engineers and scientists, which has been making motor oils for 100 years or whatever.....

 

[The Vyzitor]

Amazon motor oil is a rip off. How is Mobil 1 more expensive? 5qt of 0W30 Mobil 1 ILSAC GF-6A is $22.38. Amazon doesn't even offer this. Savings of $2? I would have to be crazy to buy generic motor oil by mail order when I can get brand name motor oil today for the same price, made by a big company like Mobil 1 with laboratories and teams of engineers and scientists, which has been making motor oils for 100 years or whatever.....

Amazon oil is made by Warren Distribution... it has definitely shown itself to be a decent oil by most measurements. I don’t think i would run it personally... but I also don’t run Mobil 1 too often either so it is in no way a condemnation of Amazon oil

 

[Gruber]

Amazon oil is made by Warren Distribution... it’s definitely shown itself to be a decent oil by most measurements. I don’t think i would run it personally... but I also don’t run Mobil 1 to often either so it is in no one a condemnation of Amazon oil

Every oil on the market with appropriate labels is a decent oil. But this doesn't answer the fundamental question: why on Earth would I select and buy this random oil?
Especialy at the time when it seems like it's very hard to find any opinion/advice page or blog on the internets that's not signed by Amazon somewhere at the bottom in small print.

 

[RehabJP]

Amazon oil is made by Warren Distribution... it’s definitely shown itself to be a decent oil by most measurements. I don’t think i would run it personally... but I also don’t run Mobil 1 to often either so it is in no one a condemnation of Amazon oil

100% Yea Warren has been around since 1922 and their Full Synth is API SN Plus, ILSAC GF5 so its not crap that is for sure. I do not run it either in my personal cars but I use it in other cars and have never had any issues. That Project Farm video is great it actually beat Liqui Moly in his test which I do not 100% agree with but it does show some of the better properties the Amazon oil does have it is by no means inferior. Really with most oils the difference comes in the additive packages. The base oils will all be about the same grade for grade.

 

[CPA1989]

Warren makes Mag1 and a host of private label like Amazon, Super Tech, and Kirkland Signature. It’s a good oil, probably not as good as say Mobil 1, Pennzoil, or a boutique brand, but it has the certifications so it will do the job adequately. There are a bunch of UOA at BITOG that support this.

I’ve come to the conclusion personally that there is no “best” oil. Use the brand you trust at the price you are willing to pay.

 

[Gruber]

Really with most oils the difference comes in the additive packages. The base oils will all be about the same grade for grade.

Well, two problems with this statement. First, the additives make the motor oil. Try running your Honda on a great super top space-age synthetic oil without additives.....

Second, the "same base" rule might be true to some extent for gasolines, but not so much for oils. There are significantly different base oils that different manufacturers use. Varying molecules, varying proprtions. Some synthetic synthetic base oils are completely different from others.
The reason for this is that gasoline is made in large volumes by relatively few refineries. Motor oils are made in much smaller amounts sometimes even by relatively small companies.
Whether these different base oils make a huge difference to any specific engine and the way it's being run, is a different matter.

 

[RehabJP]

Well, two problems with this statement. First, the additives make the motor oil. Try running your Honda on a great super top space-age synthetic oil without additives.....

Second, the "same base" rule might be true to some extent for gasolines, but not so much for oils. There are significantly different base oils that different manufacturers use. Varying molecules, varying proprtions. Some synthetic synthetic base oils are completely different from others.
The reason for this is that gasoline is made in large volumes by relatively few refineries. Motor oils are made in much smaller amounts sometimes even by relatively small companies.
Whether these different base oils make a huge difference to any specific engine and the way it's being run, is a different matter.

I get what your saying that's what I meant saying grade for grade. If your buying a API SN Plus or ILSAC GF 5 rated oil then the group or groups of base stock oils (Groups IV and V for full Synth) that are in them will be pretty comparable but the additive packages each vendor uses is what sets them apart. In most cases there may be some exceptions.

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