Beginner downshift points and other newbie questions?

SDAlexander8

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TBH, I'm sure I'm not doing a good enough job at rev matching. This is my first manual car since 1999, so I relearning and also trying to unlearn bad habits. There were no YouTube videos to show me how to drive a manual back then or of course when I got my first one in 1977.
Being a perfect rev matcher isn't absolutely necessary. If the jerking doesn’t bother you or your passengers and you aren’t burning the clutch too much then it’s whatever.

I feel that it just brings a little more skillfulness to the driving experience, and may save you some clutch life. Knowing exactly what RPM a certain speed is in a certain gear only just advances your mechanical understanding of what is actually happening when you press those pedals. For some people it is confidence inspiring, other people don’t really care that much.

As long as you aren’t using the clutch to bring the RPMs from idle speed to +3000 RPM every time you downshift to make a turn, I think you be fine. Your clutch may need to be replaced a bit earlier, but as long as it isn’t complete abuse it’ll be alright.
 
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Another question, since it seems like there is no "right" answer for "this speed = this gear"....If I'm in the "wrong" gear and at 3k or 4k....is it really hurting anything revving higher in a certain gear vs shifting up? Or is it just an efficiency thing? My husband is really messing me up with how anal he is about not keeping the revs high unnecessarily he makes me feel like I'm literally hurting it but that doesn't seem like the case at all. Again, he's used to driving a manual truck not a sports car...
 

SDAlexander8

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Another question, since it seems like there is no "right" answer for "this speed = this gear"....If I'm in the "wrong" gear and at 3k or 4k....is it really hurting anything revving higher in a certain gear vs shifting up? Or is it just an efficiency thing? My husband is really messing me up with how anal he is about not keeping the revs high unnecessarily he makes me feel like I'm literally hurting it but that doesn't seem like the case at all. Again, he's used to driving a manual truck not a sports car...
Diesels aren’t meant to rev high. They are all torque and not explosive acceleration. Some semi trucks even have like a red, yellow, green zone on the tach to show where you should be.

This engine was meant to rev. If you’re too low, you’ll know because the car will feel sluggish. If you’re cruising at too high of an RPM, you’ll know because it’ll be obnoxious and people will be looking at you like “wtf bro”.

Shifting at 4k RPM is not going to hurt the car, but the revs will have to drop further for each shift and it may not be as smooth.

Shifting too high in 1st gear will be noticeable because that 1 to 2 shift will feel like it takes a year. And the guy behind you is going to have to brake while you shift. Because he anticipates you taking off quickly, and then you slow down drastically for that shift. Shift to 2nd at 2000-2500 for a faster shift and more linear progression through the gears.
 

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Another question, since it seems like there is no "right" answer for "this speed = this gear"....If I'm in the "wrong" gear and at 3k or 4k....is it really hurting anything revving higher in a certain gear vs shifting up? Or is it just an efficiency thing? My husband is really messing me up with how anal he is about not keeping the revs high unnecessarily he makes me feel like I'm literally hurting it but that doesn't seem like the case at all. Again, he's used to driving a manual truck not a sports car...
You aren't going to hurt anything by cruising around at higher RPM vs up shifting other than hurting your fuel mileage a bit. If my RPMs have climbed to >3K and I'm just cruising, I'll look to up shift, unless I'm in a situation where I want to be prepared to have more torque available to accelerate. In that case I don't mind sitting around 3K for a bit. If you are cruising around 4K, that's probably just a bit unnecessary.
 


SDAlexander8

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You aren't going to hurt anything by cruising around at higher RPM vs up shifting other than hurting your fuel mileage a bit. If my RPMs have climbed to >3K and I'm just cruising, I'll look to up shift, unless I'm in a situation where I want to be prepared to have more torque available to accelerate. In that case I don't mind sitting around 3K for a bit. If you are cruising around 4K, that's probably just a bit unnecessary.
3000 RPM or just above seems to be where i think engine noise becomes irritating when cruising, but 4000 RPM is when turbo spool is instant. If i’m lookin to race from a roll, 4000 RPM is where I want to be at.
 

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Despite driving manuals for most of my life, my new Civic Si was a little challenging to get smooth with. The controls are very light and the clutch take up point is kind a bit unclear. It takes practice for sure.

For what it's worth, I don't go into 5th until I'm doing highway speed, 55 or 60. Then up into 6th for steady cruising on the highway. As others have said, full throttle acceleration in 5th and 6th gear should be avoided. Downshift and rev it out in 4th, you won't hurt it. I'll occaassionally downshift from 6th to 5th on long uphills even. Honestly, there's not a ton of differnce between the 2 overdrive gears. I've driven 20 minutes home on the highway with it in 5th not realizing it.

Everyone is different. My wife short shifts everywhere because she doesn't like the revyy noise . She's been driving manual he whole life as well. She doesn't lug it so we'll take the extra MPGs I guess.

I do wonder, with all the rev hang Honda has programmed into this car, why Honda didn't give the Si the auto-rev matching they put in the Type R. Sure it's not as "pure" as the raceboys would like, but personally, I'd welcome it as it would smooth things out and negate the rev hang quibbles.

Other random notes:

With winter coming, the gearbox is very rough when cold, so don't rush it in the morning until it warms up, especially that 1-2 shift.

I've found that Brake Hold is a smoother "out" than just letting the p-brake control the anti-roll back automatically when starting on a hill, which can be a bit more abrupt when it lets you go.

Good luck, keep practicing. This is my first manual daily driver in about 10 years and, despite having a Miata as a weekend car, it's taken some getting used to but I feel pretty smooth with it now. It's a very rewarding car to dive fast, and a very efficient and practical car for day to day commuting. The best of both worlds.
 
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Everyone on this post has said some very good points and really good advice so I don't see much more to add on to that

I drive in heavy traffic daily and I do try to get good mpg numbers when I'm not sending it so here's some of my speeds/shift points if it may be of help..

1st gear: 0mph to 7-10mph
2nd gear: 7mph to 15-20mph
3rd gear: 20mph to 45mph
4th gear: 45mph to 60mph
5th gear: use for highway passes
6th gear: use for straight cruising, I never pass in 6th gear even with the shorter ratios

Now the speeds at which I shift vary considerably but generally that's what I stick to when I'm just on a slow daily commute. The car will start to lug if you drop 7mph< in 2nd gear so that's the slowest I take it.

Nothing is wrong about driving in higher rev ranges. When I'm driving a bit aggressive I'll keep my car posted at around 3-4k RPM. You aren't ever really in the "wrong" gear unless you are lugging the car and going way too slow for the gear.
 

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The best thing you can do is practice the motions of doing this.

engage clutch
Remove from gear to neutral
Release clutch
Blip throttle
Engage clutch
Put into gear
Release clutch.

if you get comfortable enough with this motion and do it fast enough by the time the RPMs come down itshould be spinning at the right speed so when you release the clutch it won’t jerk because it’s all synced up.
Here is a video that I used to learn the motions of this technique. It’s called rev matching or double clutching. Here is the video explaining the science behind it, and Here is the video explaining the motions.

there isn’t really a “magic rpms per gear” to shoot for because that will always be different depending on the speed you are going in each gear, and what gear you are shifting from-to. It’s more of something you will learn after doing it and being comfortable with your car. Kinda like, “well I’m coming to a stop from this gear and speed I should blip the throttle this much”.

I hope all this helps.
 

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First thing is to learn the speed vs rpm for you car. I've created a thread for the 2020 Si in here https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/2020-rpm-speed-for-all-gears-table.48807/

Many people said the Si's clutch is light and it's hard to "feel" the friction point. I guess I'm in the minority here because I feel the clutch grab and pull every single time when I'm paying attention. When I'm not paying attention, it just happens anyway I guess from muscle memory.

During my daily drives, I rarely find it necessary to down shift. After take off, I always upshift to the highest gear possible then trying to keep the RPM above 1.5K or so while cruising. I do use 5th in 35MPH roads but only if there's a relatively long stretch of clear traffic ahead. When I'm coming up on a stop sign or light, then I'll just leave it in the current gear (unless, of course, if I'm coming up on a hill in which case I might down shift if the rpm is too low) and slow down close to the car in front, then clutch in and stop. If you checkout the gear vs rpm table, you'll see that the stall speed for 4th is around 9 or 10 MPH so you can safely come pretty close to the car in front before clutch in. Don't get into a habit of coasting in neutral up to the car in front from afar.

I down shift for the following reasons:
  • I need more power either to pass or to power through a terrain change (hills)
    • Since 3rd max is around 80MPH, 4th is the lowest I'll down shift to on highway speeds.
  • To prevent stalling the engine
I find the rev-hang is really bad, but only in, 1st->2nd so I try to shift before 10MPH unless I'm coming up on a hill. Another method I use is to release the gas pedal first, wait a second or so, then clutch and shift to 2nd. This helps, but I mostly just shift before it hits 10MPH. After 1st->2nd, I'm not bothered by rev-hang so I shift around 2.5K-3K for 2nd->3rd and lower for higher gears.

Another tip on taking off from a video which I find helpful for explaining is the amount of throttle applied is inversely proportional to the amount of time you need to slip the clutch. The more gas, the faster you can release the clutch.
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