Beginner downshift points and other newbie questions?

[SolSiForever]

I've had my 2020 Si for a week now and I still have a lot to learn so my apologies if these are straight up dumb questions. I tried to search for a good downshift thread but wasn't finding one. My husband is an ok teacher but I feel there are some points he's lacking in since his manual experience was only ever in a truck 17 years ago. Since I'm a complete beginner (this is my first manual car) I need some help understanding what I should be doing.

Is there a good MPH range for each gear I should be aware of? I understand this will vary based on my goals and if I value efficiency, but a general idea would help me a lot. The car's guide saying to be in 6th at 39 MPH doesn't make sense to me. At 39 I'm probably in 4th. Right now I shift around 2.5-3k rpm since I'm babying everything in the break in period. Around town I rarely find a reason to get above 4th gear. Shifting up seems to make sense to me, it's easy enough to understand when to do that. What confuses me somewhat is downshifting. When, where, and why.

I know that there's basically no reason to shift into 1st unless I am crawling at 5mph or something. Is there a 1st gear lock out to prevent accidental shifts into first? I'm super paranoid about doing that and breaking it. I might shift down into second if I'm in the 10-15 range, and 3rd if I'm under 25. But after that it all becomes confusing. Doing 50 in 5th seems pretty similar to 50 in 6th. So I'm not really grasping when I'd downshift into 5th from 6th or even 4th from 5th. Right now if I'm slowing down from say 50 (I've yet to take this on the highway) I get confused. How slow is it ok to go in 5th or 6th without the car getting pissed and trying to stall? Until I understand downshifting from higher gears, I don't really want to highway drive. Is it better to just slow the hell down in gear and then skip into a lower gear vs sequential?

So basically a mental guide of "If I were in neutral (or slowing down from whatever gear) and I'm slowing down and need to pick a gear to speed up out of at X speed I should pick Y gear". Assuming I'm not above 3k rpm which at this point I never am. Points for explaining things in stupid baby terms lol.

Also can someone explain brake hold and if it would be beneficial to my roll back anxiety? Right now I'm super slow and cautious taking off in first as I learn my footwork, I tend to under throttle and need to fix that. Taking off on a hill is really fucking with me since I'm SO SLOW at take offs right now. If I stall with someone around I get a bad case of the jello legs. The automatic hill hold, if it does kick in, is only for a second and a half it seems and for me that's not enough time, so it isn't helping much. Would brake hold help this situation at all?

Lastly, how much is my car going to hate me if I don't use premium fuel? I don't have a problem using premium I just want to understand what kind of difference it makes.

Any other newbie tips to help me learn this car and manual in general would be much appreciated. Thanks!

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[SDAlexander8]

So much to cover... Everybody drives a little differently, but there are some major nonos with this car.

You will eventually get a feel for what RPM range the car feels the most responsive and happy at. In my 2017, the car seems most responsive and getting the best fuel economy when sitting between 2500-3000 RPM. Lower than that and I feel that turbo lag is very noticeable and the mpg bar dips lower to accelerate.

When taking off from a start, it may be easier to gas to the RPM you want to start at, then start releasing the clutch as opposed to trying to release clutch and push gas at the same time. The car has a very light clutch and the engagement point is tough to feel. Throttle pedal is also very sensitive, which doesn’t help. I like to take off with the RPMs around 1300-1500.

You may have noticed that the 1st to 2nd shift can be very long and clunky when you shift at a higher RPM. 1st gear is mainly just to get you rolling. If you find that the shift from 1st to 2nd is not smooth, or the person behind you is having to brake to avoid rear ending you while you shift, try shifting at a lower RPM. I find that shifting to 2nd at 2500 or 2000 rpm is smoothest for normal driving.

5th and 6th gear are overdrive gears. You should never accelerate hard in 5th or 6th. This is very hard on the clutch assembly, especially in a turbocharged car. Even if it feels like the car is accelerating sufficiently in those gears. I’ll use 5th to accelerate slowly to pass someone casually at highway speeds, but if i’m using more than 25% throttle i’ll drop it into 4th.

I would never be in 6th gear at 39mph. I don’t know what Honda was smoking when they put that in the owner’s manual. I usually shift to 5th around 60mph. I use 6th when above 70mph.

Premium fuel is recommended for this car because of the octane rating. High compression small turbo engines run better on higher octane fuel, which helps with preignition from pressure. When you put regular 87 in this car, it will adjust timing to compensate so it does not cause damage. It will run fine, but you will lose a bit of power. I would always try and put premium in the car as it does actually affect the performance of the engine. But if you accidentally put in regular once in awhile, it’s not the end of the world.

I’d like to end this post by saying that you will get better with time. The first few weeks learning manual can be scary, but extremely rewarding once you get the hang of it. Just take your time and don’t forget the rules of the road while you are still overthinking every shift.

Stalling the car are few times while you learn isn’t going to hurt it. Lugging it some while you learn the sweet spots for each gear isn’t going to hurt it. As long as you don’t make it a long term habit. It is a Honda and was built to be able to take some abuse. However, stalling does feel absolutely brutal in this car...

 

[Jfuston]

This is a great post, but it is a lot to cover. I’m having to relearn how to do this myself since it’s been a while for me driving a manual too.

A few things that I’ve learned recently is that when you’re starting in first, more gas is generally better. If you start with more gas, you can learn over time to back off a little. For me the secret to getting going is more gas and holding the clutch a little slower when disengaging. This help with keeping it from jolting too.

The hill start assist can be your friend or your enemy. It comes off after you apply a certain amount of gas, but if you give it enough gas to unengage that and don’t come off the clutch fast enough, you’ll roll backwards.

For your downshifting question, I go all the way up to 6th even at 45-50 mph. May be unnecessary but it allows me to practice.

 

[BrandonSmith]

Shift points are called out in the owners manual

 

[SolSiForever]

The car has a very light clutch and the engagement point is tough to feel. Throttle pedal is also very sensitive, which doesn’t help. I like to take off with the RPMs around 1300-1500.

Ok so it's not just me. I was finding it tough to "feel" any engagement point and have just been trying to muscle memory it through watching when the revs start to dip as I let the clutch out. And yes I find I have to be very gentle with the throttle or it kicks right up. I'm sure these are things that will improve as muscle memory takes hold.

You may have noticed that the 1st to 2nd shift can be very long and clunky when you shift at a higher RPM. 1st gear is mainly just to get you rolling. If you find that the shift from 1st to 2nd is not smooth, or the person behind you is having to brake to avoid rear ending you while you shift, try shifting at a lower RPM. I find that shifting to 2nd at 2500 or 2000 rpm is smoothest for normal driving.

Yes 1 to 2 is a tough one, I always feel the bobble.

Shift points are called out in the owners manual

And I noted that I read that but that it wasn't making sense to me as to why I'd be in 6th at 39MPH. Seems like those are for super peak MPG and not like daily driving around town with speed limits at 35.

 

[SDAlexander8]

You might get peak mpgs in 6th gear at 40 mph on the flattest road in the world, but normal roads aren’t perfectly flat. Climbing even the slightest incline in 6th gear at 40 mph would be lugging the engine big time and putting a ton if strain in the clutch.

 

[SDAlexander8]

Final drove ratio is different in the 2020 Si compared to 17’-19’, but I find that anything slower than around 7 or 8 mph in 2nd gear will cause the engine to start lugging and shaking.

If you have a Del Sol Si, haven’t you been driving a manual transmission car for some time?

 

[Old F@rt]

OP, congrats on your new ride. Only going to add a couple of things that caught my attention, as the guys are giving you great info.

First, don't baby the car. You want to really be varying revs constantly while breaking in a new engine. This applies to accelerating & then getting off the throttle to create back pressure. The constant varying will really go a long way in getting all the internals to seal & bed . The more you can vary speed/ throttle & let up, the better for the first 500 plus miles. (If you decide to change the oil after engine break in is complete, that is not a bad idea but another topic)

Second, don't "coast" in neutral. It is a bad habit to pick up. When the car is in neutral & moving, you don't have control of the car to either accelerate or use the revs to slow the car, so try to avoid getting into that routine.

Hope this helped & get out there & enjoy

 

[WF19]

I'm no expert and I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I rarely sequentially downshift. When coming into a corner turn where I don't have to stop, I'll disengage the clutch, shift into the gear I need, and then engage the clutch when I'm at my desired speed (no longer have to brake).

 

[Blood_TypeR]

There was recently a thread someone made about this called “tips for manual beginner” a lot of great tips n advice; Welcome to the Honda family

 

[SDAlexander8]

I'm no expert and I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I rarely sequentially downshift. When coming into a corner turn where I don't have to stop, I'll disengage the clutch, shift into the gear I need, and then engage the clutch when I'm at my desired speed (no longer have to brake).

Are you rev matching when you do this or just using the clutch to yank the rpms back to where they need to be?

 

[WF19]

Are you rev matching when you do this or just using the clutch to yank the rpms back to where they need to be?

TBH, I'm sure I'm not doing a good enough job at rev matching. This is my first manual car since 1999, so I relearning and also trying to unlearn bad habits. There were no YouTube videos to show me how to drive a manual back then or of course when I got my first one in 1977.

 

[DRuby]

I would advise practice starting on a level parking lot. No throttle, just use the clutch to get rolling. That should give you the feel for the clutch engagement point. That point will be the same for all starts, level and hills.
After you get that memory point, starting on hills with some throttle should be easier.

Happy driving

 

[SolSiForever]

If you have a Del Sol Si, haven’t you been driving a manual transmission car for some time?

No the sol Si were available automatic and mine is automatic.

tips for manual beginner

Thank you I searched and found the thread.

 

[jjm0315]

Nothing helpful to add since it looks like it’s been well covered. Just wanted to say welcome and tell you I was in the same exact boat 2 years ago.
First manual ever, and boyfriend is a great teacher as well, but it was just something I had to practice. I lose most of my concentration when I’m watched so I didn’t let him ride with me for months lol
I promise it does get easier. A few months after my purchase I was still a little worried I made the wrong choice by buying a manual. Now....best decision ever.
Welcome! And hit me up if you ever just want to vent lol

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