Battery or radio on too long?

SCOPESYS

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SCOPESYS

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I find this whole "Battery going flat so quickly" very strange.

I did some Current Measurement test a few weeks ago, with just the Radio running, and it only drew about 3.8 -4.0 amps (Radio at reasonable volume)
With a 50 AH capacity, it should last for over 50/4 = 12.5 hours !!

see https://www.civicx.com/threads/honda-civic-testers-needed.30409/#post-511619

So what is it only lasting less than 1 hours for so many. ???

I have played with the Radio is my other car (1987 Nissan maxima), which now also has an Android unit in it, and a reasonably new battery, and have often flattened that while playing for more than a couple of hours. That also does not make sense -

I'm an Electronic Engineer, so this is very puzzling to me.!!!

What I will try over Christmas, is charging my 6 month old 2018 Civic Si's battery to full charge with a high end battery charger, and see
(1) How much more charge it will take, after being charged by the cars alternator recently on a long run without headlights on.
(2) With just the radio running, measure the discharging Battery Voltage over time, occasionally putting on the Headlights to FULL Beam for a few seconds, to see the higher load voltage drop.

My current suspicion are:
Either
(a) The car is not fully charging the battery.
or
(b) The Honda battery, as fitted during manufacture, is total rubbish.

I am excited to see what results I get !!!!
 
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brianric

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I find this whole "Battery going flat so quickly" very strange.

I did some Current Measurement test a few weeks ago, with just the Radio running, and it only drew about 3.8 -4.0 amps (Radio at reasonable volume)
With a 50 AH capacity, it should last for over 50/4 = 12.5 hours !!

see https://www.civicx.com/threads/honda-civic-testers-needed.30409/#post-511619

So what is it only lasting less than 1 hours for so many. ???

I have played with the Radio is my other car (1987 Nissan maxima), which now also has an Android unit in it, and a reasonably new battery, and have often flattened that while playing for more than a couple of hours. That also does not make sense -

I'm an Electronic Engineer, so this is very puzzling to me.!!!

What I will try over Christmas, is charging my 6 month old 2018 Civic Si's battery to full charge with a high end battery charger, and see
(1) How much more charge it will take, after being charged by the cars alternator recently on a long run without headlights on.
(2) With just the radio running, measure the discharging Battery Voltage over time, occasionally putting on the Headlights to FULL Beam for a few seconds, to see the higher load voltage drop.

My current suspicion are:
Either
(a) The car is not fully charging the battery.
or
(b) The Honda battery, as fitted during manufacture, is total rubbish.

I am excited to see what results I get !!!!
Assuming my charging system is OK, I arrived in Aberdeen at 5 AM after driving some 50 miles, so the battery should have been totally charged. I'm going to ask Pep Boys if they can run a load test on the Honda battery before installing the new battery.
 

SCOPESYS

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Assuming my charging system is OK, I arrived in Aberdeen at 5 AM after driving some 50 miles, so the battery should have been totally charged. I'm going to ask Pep Boys if they can run a load test on the Honda battery before installing the new battery.
Arrived at 5 AM, so you had your headlights on for that 50 mile drive. Still should have charged up fine.

Get them to also check the charging, with the headlights on Full. They will probably do this as part of the "Computerize" test with their battery tester.

Will be interested in what Pep Boys find :) maybe you can scan/snap & post the test results.
 
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brianric

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Arrived at 5 AM, so you had your headlights on for that 50 mile drive. Still should have charged up fine.

Get them to also check the charging, with the headlights on Full. They will probably do this as part of the "Computerize" test with their battery tester.

Will be interested in what Pep Boys find :) maybe you can scan/snap & post the test results.
I'll have them do a check, assuming they have time to do it. I'll report back either way.
 


SCOPESYS

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I'll have them do a check, assuming they have time to do it. I'll report back either way.
Takes all of 5 minutes max .. If they want any chance of selling you a battery, they will do the test for you :thumbsup:
 

ebhaynz

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I find this whole "Battery going flat so quickly" very strange.

I did some Current Measurement test a few weeks ago, with just the Radio running, and it only drew about 3.8 -4.0 amps (Radio at reasonable volume)
With a 50 AH capacity, it should last for over 50/4 = 12.5 hours !!

So what is it only lasting less than 1 hours for so many. ???

I'm an Electronic Engineer, so this is very puzzling to me.!!!

My current suspicion are:
Either
(a) The car is not fully charging the battery.
or
(b) The Honda battery, as fitted during manufacture, is total rubbish.
I"m thinking this falls under B. The Honda battery is total rubbish.

They just don't make things like they used to. My 2005 Scion xB battery lasted 6 years and the replacement(non-OEM) only lasted 3 1/2 years. I don't expect my current Si battery to make it to the 3 year point.
 

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I"m thinking this falls under B. The Honda battery is total rubbish.

They just don't make things like they used to. My 2005 Scion xB battery lasted 6 years and the replacement(non-OEM) only lasted 3 1/2 years. I don't expect my current Si battery to make it to the 3 year point.
Another thing to watch out for is that a "BAD" battery can very easily blow your alternator.
(I speak from recent experience)
Suddenly, a decent NEW, (non Honda oem) battery is looking very attractive.

While you might be able to save a few bucks, and get your Battery replaced under warranty, its going to be another Honda battery... and if that fails, and leaves you stuck somewhere, looking back, you might well have wished that you had just gone out and bought a decent battery in the first place,
 

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I"m thinking this falls under B. The Honda battery is total rubbish.

They just don't make things like they used to. My 2005 Scion xB battery lasted 6 years and the replacement(non-OEM) only lasted 3 1/2 years. I don't expect my current Si battery to make it to the 3 year point.
One problem is, if you flatten the Battery, any "non-Deep Cycle" Battery does not like being heavily discharged, and will never recover to what it was before the deep discharge.
Do this a few times, and you greatly reduce the CAPACITY of the battery.

see "Dual Purpose" Battery ----
https://www.autobatteries.com/en-us...ment/compare-deep-cycle-vs-starting-batteries

Like most things in life --
"You get what you pay for"
-- or in the Dealer's case
"You get what you pay double for"

On a more positive note: I do not believe that your Honda dealer will have a "Dual-Purpose" battery to sell you in any case :dunno:

Consider:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/OPTIMA-YellowTop-Dual-Purpose-Battery-Group-51R/521567399
https://www.walmart.com/ip/OPTIMA-YellowTop-Dual-Purpose-Battery-Group-51R/521567399
Yes, about twice the price, but 3 times the life.... and if you deep discharge your normal Starting Battery, it will last a lot longer than your short life starting battery.
 
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ebhaynz

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Another thing to watch out for is that a "BAD" battery can very easily blow your alternator.
(I speak from recent experience)
Suddenly, a decent NEW, (non Honda oem) battery is looking very attractive.

While you might be able to save a few bucks, and get your Battery replaced under warranty, its going to be another Honda battery... and if that fails, and leaves you stuck somewhere, looking back, you might well have wished that you had just gone out and bought a decent battery in the first place,
I agree, the OEM's from 15 years ago might have been fine but nowadays they are junk(as we are experiencing first hand).
Also, I think if you buy a battery for $100 it's only going to last 3 years so you gotta pay over $150 to get to 4 years. I do notice that only expensive($150+) batteries give you a 4 year warranty anymore.
Sucks, but this is what I'm seeing, YMMV.
 


SCOPESYS

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I agree, the OEM's from 15 years ago might have been fine but nowadays they are junk(as we are experiencing first hand).
Also, I think if you buy a battery for $100 it's only going to last 3 years so you gotta pay over $150 to get to 4 years. I do notice that only expensive($150+) batteries give you a 4 year warranty anymore.
Sucks, but this is what I'm seeing, YMMV.
or pay more like $240 and get a battery that is a better type, and will last many times longer.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/OPTIMA-YellowTop-Dual-Purpose-Battery-Group-51R/521567399
 

ebhaynz

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One problem is, if you flatten the Battery, any "non-Deep Cycle" Battery does not like being heavily discharged, and will never recover to what it was before the deep discharge.
Do this a few times, and you greatly reduce the CAPACITY of the battery.
But does running the radio for 1 hour flatten the battery?
 

SCOPESYS

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But does running the radio for 1 hour flatten the battery?
Multiple people in this forum are reporting that it does for them ...
 

SCOPESYS

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Found this on the Honda Service website.

The last paragraph would seem to be a JOKE, as the BMS clearly does not give this protection, as so many in this forum have found out.
or
Maybe the Civics do not have a BMS ???

The BATTERY CHARGE LOW or BATT LOW warning message on my dash is on. What does that mean and what should I do?
For vehicles equipped with the Battery Management System, this message occurs when the battery’s State of Charge has dropped below a predetermined level. The message is intended to inform you that the battery requires charging to guarantee proper performance under all conditions (extremely cold conditions, high electrical system demands, etc).

Conditions that may cause the battery charge to drop enough to prompt the BATTERY CHARGE LOW or BATT LOW message are:

• An extended period spent with the ignition on, but the engine not running. The effect on the battery increases if the radio, lights, heater fan or other accessories are on at the same time.
• Driving short trips repeatedly without a longer trip between them. The starter uses a lot of energy when starting the engine. If the engine is not running long enough, the charging system cannot recharge the battery to the level it was at before the engine started. Running high-demand electrical accessories, such as seat heaters, can make this situation even worse.
• Extremely cold weather is also hard on the battery. Not only does it require more energy to start the vehicle cold, but the battery does not operate as well.

If any of these conditions occur, and the battery charge drops below a certain level, the Battery Management System informs the driver that the battery may not be able to start the vehicle. In extreme cases by illuminating the BATTERY CHARGE LOW or BATT LOW warning message will illuminate. While this message does mean the battery charge is low, it usually does not mean that the battery will not start the engine.

If you see the BATTERY CHARGE LOW or BATT LOW message, do not panic. It simply means the battery charge is lower than it should be. You can fix this by taking longer trips between shorter trips, minimizing unnecessary electrical accessory usage during short trips, and spending less time using electrical accessories while the engine is not running.

The Battery Management System is to protect the driver from allowing the battery charge to drop to a point where it cannot start the vehicle. By using it as a guide, not only will the life of the battery be extended, but the chances of the vehicle not starting due to a discharged battery will be greatly reduced.
 

ebhaynz

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Found this on the Honda Service website.

The last paragraph would seem to be a JOKE, as the BMS clearly does not give this protection, as so many in this forum have found out.
or
Maybe the Civics do not have a BMS ???
I'm pretty sure you're right, the Civics do not have a BMS.
Sponsored

 
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