Base model 1.5T Knock control

KTuner

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K. Control goes no lower than .54 on Hondata. I asked Doug (Hondata) about that on his official Hondata forums because Ktuner goes as low as .49...

Here's his reply:
"The numbers are different but that may just indicate a difference in conversion. You'd have to use the Honda scan tool on each to see."

That didn't really answer my question. Does anyone know why Hondata K. control goes no lower than .54? Does than mean that Hondata is leaving some power on the table so to speak compared to Ktuner?
Our conversion matches the dealer tool.
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GTAHatch

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So update. I use MAF cleaner and NO it didn’t work for me. I can still get it to climb and climb just as fast as before if not faster now. I still have a feeling that it has something to do with the MAF. I’m gonna see if I can get my hands on another MAF and compare. Let you guys know.
 

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So update. I use MAF cleaner and NO it didn’t work for me. I can still get it to climb and climb just as fast as before if not faster now. I still have a feeling that it has something to do with the MAF. I’m gonna see if I can get my hands on another MAF and compare. Let you guys know.
If your fuel trims are normal I wouldn't think the MAF has anything to do with it.
 

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I highly doubt it’s a MAF thing. That would be one of the last things I’d check.
 


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GTAHatch

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Any updates? I'm trying to figure out the high knock control on my car as well, lol.
So I think I jumped the gun a little. I find that my knock has been better after cleaning it. I haven’t seen it get that high in a long time. Actually since cleaning it I don’t think I’ve seen Over .80 and thats with every tune I’ve thrown at it. Did it fix it? No I don’t think so. Did it help? I actually do believe it may have helped.
 
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GTAHatch

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So I think I jumped the gun a little. I find that my knock has been better after cleaning it. I haven’t seen it get that high in a long time. Actually since cleaning it I don’t think I’ve seen Over .80 and thats with every tune I’ve thrown at it. Did it fix it? No I don’t think so. Did it help? I actually do believe it may have helped.

Hey another quick update. Still going strong. Haven’t had much jumps. Still haven’t seen it over .80. Again not a fix but it definitely helped.
 

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just tuned to 19.5psi with ktuner and saw .59s on 91. gonna fill up 93 next tank to see what will happen
 

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just tuned to 19.5psi with ktuner and saw .59s on 91. gonna fill up 93 next tank to see what will happen
You know every tune is suppose to start off at .59 right lol? The ECU will learn and adjust.
 


charleswrivers

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Because you can't see the Vit tune parameters... you just won't know what boost/ignition values are there.

You could go with a basemap and enable the ethanol map. It would, by default, add a maximum of 5 to the base ignition value. Do your pulls... watch k.control. if it's rising substantially... it'll be pulling the extra advance the ethanol adjust table is adding back out. Just because it's rising doesn't mean you're damaging your engine... so long as it can rise to a high enough value to retard timing to prevent knock.

http://www.ktuner.com/KTunerHelp/ignition_timing_and_knock_control.htm

I'm not sure how high it *can* go. If there's an upper limit that K.control can go... you'd certainly not want to tap it out to where it could no longer retard timing.

It sounds to me like the tune is very aggressive with both high boost levels and a lot of timing added. The K.control rising is pulling timing as needed to keep the engine safe. Anything to further lower IATs would be helpful... improved intercooler and, to a lesser extent, a CAI. If you're outside of the efficiency range of the turbo... lower boost... but since it's be a locked tune, you're sunk there. If the tune was developed in cooler weather and now that it's getting hotter your current setup is tapped out to cool the intake charge... you could see if you could of sought out another revision as that was a stipulation on it, for free (mods cost $100 for a revision, as I recall) but if he's out of the game... again... you're sunk.

I'd still try a 21# and 23# basemap with ethanol adjustment table enabled and see how K.control responds. I'm not sure what boost that custom tune is having you run, but if you're at some very high level of boost... you're just pushing a lot of hot air. Without any ability to get another revision, an intercooler upgrade might be your best bet. It's a bandaid to running too much boost on too small a turbo.

Look at your datalogs and look at your IATs in relation to your K.control. See if they trend together... up... a lot.
 

ToastedSi

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Because you can't see the Vit tune parameters... you just won't know what boost/ignition values are there.

You could go with a basemap and enable the ethanol map. It would, by default, add a maximum of 5 to the base ignition value. Do your pulls... watch k.control. if it's rising substantially... it'll be pulling the extra advance the ethanol adjust table is adding back out. Just because it's rising doesn't mean you're damaging your engine... so long as it can rise to a high enough value to retard timing to prevent knock.

http://www.ktuner.com/KTunerHelp/ignition_timing_and_knock_control.htm

I'm not sure how high it *can* go. If there's an upper limit that K.control can go... you'd certainly not want to tap it out to where it could no longer retard timing.

It sounds to me like the tune is very aggressive with both high boost levels and a lot of timing added. The K.control rising is pulling timing as needed to keep the engine safe. Anything to further lower IATs would be helpful... improved intercooler and, to a lesser extent, a CAI. If you're outside of the efficiency range of the turbo... lower boost... but since it's be a locked tune, you're sunk there. If the tune was developed in cooler weather and now that it's getting hotter your current setup is tapped out to cool the intake charge... you could see if you could of sought out another revision as that was a stipulation on it, for free (mods cost $100 for a revision, as I recall) but if he's out of the game... again... you're sunk.

I'd still try a 21# and 23# basemap with ethanol adjustment table enabled and see how K.control responds. I'm not sure what boost that custom tune is having you run, but if you're at some very high level of boost... you're just pushing a lot of hot air. Without any ability to get another revision, an intercooler upgrade might be your best bet. It's a bandaid to running too much boost on too small a turbo.

Look at your datalogs and look at your IATs in relation to your K.control. See if they trend together... up... a lot.
thanks for the info. i'll pick myself up a dedicated android burner to do some logging. i'm running the off-the-shelf 19.5. gonna test out 21 sometime later this month
 

charleswrivers

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...and while it was brought up earlier in this thread that the Si has a different intake design... but is also has a 9 vane vice 11 vane turbo. It has slightly less backpressure and will flow a little more CFMs. The base one will fall out of efficiency sooner and start pushing hot air. Then there's the compression ratio. The Sis is slightly lower. All these come into play to make the Si take to a little more boost efficiently and tend to be more detonation resistant beyond any tuning software considerations.

It's not a huge difference... but it will come into play when you're pushing things to their limits.
 

charleswrivers

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thanks for the info. i'll pick myself up a dedicated android burner to do some logging. i'm running the off-the-shelf 19.5. gonna test out 21 sometime later this month
I started with the 21# on my Si... then went with the 23# then fooled around with that. You'll hit diminishing returns the more boost you try to run on the stock turbo but even between 21 to 23... the difference was noticable. You ought to be pleased with the difference between 19.5 and 21. On my first flash, 19.5 was sport off and 21 was sport on. You could definately tell the difference.
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