Axxess AXDSPX-HN3 specs: bypass amp on 12 speaker audio of Sport Touring/Type R?

vblue42

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So the factory system has both front tweeters, the drivers side rear mid range, the sub, and the center channel speaker out of phase. I’m really starting to wonder if you may have something there about the phase canceling out the echo. I’m going to discuss it with my guy at Metra and see what he thinks. I’ll update my findings.
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slab42

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It’s import to understand that the warning tones are output to a hidden speaker in the dash somewhere. But is controlled by the DSP. So the 485 connector may indeed by and input back to the headunit for some reason.
There are no hidden speakers in the dash. Honda would not leave them off the service manuals. They would want their techs to be able to find them and service them should there be an issue. The beeping comes from the door speakers as the grid posted here shows.

Im pretty sure all of the high end trims have ANC.
Civics in the US do not have ANC. I cannot speak to other world markets though. Other Hondas such as your Insight or an Accord do though. I work in the car electronics industry and ANC is something our techs have to defeat whenever adding speakers, subwoofers, amplifiers, etc or else you get horrendous feedback from the alteration in frequency response in the new equipment when the vehicle tries to cancel noise.

It is my understanding they do this to achieve a type of faux time alignment.
This is likely correct. Many OEMs are implementing the use of things like an upmixer, all-pass filters, etc to achieve better results in their audio system.

Thank you for all your info and responses here on this product. I was hesitant to spend the money on it because of a history I have with many first-to-market products not working 100%, including stuff from metra. I have been waiting for some of the other companies I deal with to release a solution for these vehicles, but they all say they have been delayed and are continuing to work on it. I have been burned before by using the first-to-market solution when it wasn't fully ready, and your first hand experience with it was very helpful. As I expected, there are some bugs with it that were not worked out before release, but I am optimistic that they will sort the little things out. Thanks!
 

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So the factory system has both front tweeters, the drivers side rear mid range, the sub, and the center channel speaker out of phase. I’m really starting to wonder if you may have something there about the phase canceling out the echo. I’m going to discuss it with my guy at Metra and see what he thinks. I’ll update my findings.
The only speakers that should matter are the front L and R. I think if anything, they must shut all speakers except the front L and R during a hands free call.
 

vblue42

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There are no hidden speakers in the dash. Honda would not leave them off the service manuals. They would want their techs to be able to find them and service them should there be an issue. The beeping comes from the door speakers as the grid posted here shows.
If you look at 5 Star Car Stereo’s 2018 Accord video they verify this as fact when doing speaker testing for chime. And I have verified in my car that after muting all channels the chimes are still heard. This was even done with the amps unplugged.
 

vblue42

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@ slab42 Metra suggested removing delay on speakers as a means of possibly eliminating the echo. Have you experienced this in your testing with vehicles with this issue?
 


slab42

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If you look at 5 Star Car Stereo’s 2018 Accord video they verify this as fact when doing speaker testing for chime. And I have verified in my car that after muting all channels the chimes are still heard. This was even done with the amps unplugged.
I took another look at the civic and the accord and they both do have a speaker/buzzer built into the cluster. It's not something that connects to the stereo that I can see. It looks like the gauges just monitor the vehicle's buses and beep/chime when necessary. (pic of accord diagram below)

As far as the echo goes, it could very well be the delay not playing nice with the vehicle's mic/HFL/whatever you wanna call it. If the car is "ignoring" the audio it is outputting, but you're delaying the output, the car may not be "ignoring" it since it is arriving at the mic later than expected, if that makes sense. Things like this are not fun to workaround since it usually means getting rid of time alignment, which ruins alot of the imaging and staging in the system :( I would really like to dive into this more hands-on, but I don't have the metra piece, nor do I work in a shop any longer, and it sucks doing this sort of testing and work in a home garage after my 'day job' lol.

Honda Civic 10th gen Axxess AXDSPX-HN3 specs: bypass amp on 12 speaker audio of Sport Touring/Type R? Untitled
 

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I took another look at the civic and the accord and they both do have a speaker/buzzer built into the cluster. It's not something that connects to the stereo that I can see. It looks like the gauges just monitor the vehicle's buses and beep/chime when necessary. (pic of accord diagram below)

As far as the echo goes, it could very well be the delay not playing nice with the vehicle's mic/HFL/whatever you wanna call it. If the car is "ignoring" the audio it is outputting, but you're delaying the output, the car may not be "ignoring" it since it is arriving at the mic later than expected, if that makes sense. Things like this are not fun to workaround since it usually means getting rid of time alignment, which ruins alot of the imaging and staging in the system :( I would really like to dive into this more hands-on, but I don't have the metra piece, nor do I work in a shop any longer, and it sucks doing this sort of testing and work in a home garage after my 'day job' lol.
There're chimes and then there're beeps. Beeps are feedback sounds such as the beeps you hear if you turn on key press sound in the head unit or when you disable VSC or CMBS.
 

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It’s import to understand that the warning tones are output to a hidden speaker in the dash somewhere. But is controlled by the DSP. So the 485 connector may indeed by and input back to the headunit for some reason.
I have tested the RS485 connector (Connector C). My understanding of the Honda service manual is correct. In addition to carrying the RS-485 link, it also outputs the analog audio beeps and analog navigation and voice recognition voices to the amp. And in the 2020 Si, it also outputs the analog engine sound to the amp. The "System Beeps" described by the service manual at least included the key press beeps generated by the head unit. I tested it by unplugging the SPDIF connector D and I can still hear the key press beeps in the door tweeters and nav voices in the center speaker. Unplug Connector C and beeps are gone.

So to say the DSP only accepts digital audio signal is incorrect if the nav and key press beeps are working.
 
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Well that helps trying to figure out how this setup works. Thanks for the info!
 

vblue42

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I have tested the RS485 connector (Connector C). My understanding of the Honda service manual is correct. In addition to carrying the RS-485 link, it also outputs the analog audio beeps and analog navigation and voice recognition voices to the amp. And in the 2020 Si, it also outputs the analog engine sound to the amp. The "System Beeps" described by the service manual at least included the key press beeps generated by the head unit. I tested it by unplugging the SPDIF connector D and I can still hear the key press beeps in the door tweeters and nav voices in the center speaker. Unplug Connector C and beeps are gone.

So to say the DSP only accepts digital audio signal is incorrect if the nav and key press beeps are working.
Fair enough. But I still don’t understand why even the debate on this. The unit is still completely plug and play. So what was your question again?
 


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I think he's trying to find out if you could use a different spdif to analog part instead of going with this piece. I personally would prefer that since I have an audiocontrol amp that has a much better DSP than the metra piece already built into the amp. I am trying to avoid paying for a DSP when all I need is a usable analog signal.
 

vblue42

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I think he's trying to find out if you could use a different spdif to analog part instead of going with this piece. I personally would prefer that since I have an audiocontrol amp that has a much better DSP than the metra piece already built into the amp. I am trying to avoid paying for a DSP when all I need is a usable analog signal.
Not as far as music audio is concerned. But my question would be is there some way to adapt the propriety Honda SPDIF connector into an after market SPDIF connection so other DSPs could used. The DSR1 comes to mind as an alternative. Can the Honda connector simply be cut off and an RCA style SPDIF connector be spliced?
 

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Not as far as music audio is concerned. But my question would be is there some way to adapt the propriety Honda SPDIF connector into an after market SPDIF connection so other DSPs could used. The DSR1 comes to mind as an alternative. Can the Honda connector simply be cut off and an RCA style SPDIF connector be spliced?
That was something I was hoping to do too. I have a DSR1 not doing anything right now and would not mind running SPDIF into that, but from what I have seen, this honda SPDIF protocol is not standard and going direct to the DSR1 won't work. It would be interesting to see if you could 'translate' the honda protocol into the standard SPDIF protocol, but I'd be happy with honda SPDIF to analog without DSP for your 'average' amp install or for installs like mine where I already have a better DSP.
 

vblue42

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That was something I was hoping to do too. I have a DSR1 not doing anything right now and would not mind running SPDIF into that, but from what I have seen, this honda SPDIF protocol is not standard and going direct to the DSR1 won't work. It would be interesting to see if you could 'translate' the honda protocol into the standard SPDIF protocol, but I'd be happy with honda SPDIF to analog without DSP for your 'average' amp install or for installs like mine where I already have a better DSP.
There is a video on YT of an installer demoing the DSR1 with an Accord. I commented on the video how was this hooked up and all he said was it is installed as a Universal DSP.
 

slab42

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There is a video on YT of an installer demoing the DSR1 with an Accord. I commented on the video how was this hooked up and all he said was it is installed as a Universal DSP.
Interesting... did he have just music playing or did he showcase that all the nav prompts, etc still worked?
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