Awful shifting feel relief?

[mvela]

The notchiness and vague shifter feel has more to do with the syncro and shift cable designs. I address a lot of it here:
https://www.civicx.com/threads/civic-si-break-in-questions.34813/#post-582322

It simply takes time for syncros to do their job and match the rotation of the gear to the mainshaft. Giving an extra half second between shifts is a huge behavior change, but one worth doing to ensure the syncros don't get damaged long term (IMHO).

Seems that Amsoil does a decent job promoting better syncro engagement. But it won't necessarily improve the sponginess going to even gears. You can try a different shift cable to see if things improve. Everything else is probably more for personal preference/feel (weight, bushings, knob, etc).




EDIT: Here's a good overview of some of the differences. The gold standard, the S2K's gearbox, has some gears that are triple syncro'd for better engagement. I believe our gearbox is all single syncros, which is probably done for cost.

I believe you are right. I have already changed my cable bushings with acuity bushings and also the mount bushings along with the rest of the stage 2 shift kit. That made a big difference in firmness. I’m just trying to help the synchromesh engage better to help shifts be smoother while also helping the longevity of the parts. And seems like Amsoil is the best bet so far.

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[amirza786]

The notchiness and vague shifter feel has more to do with the syncro and shift cable designs. I address a lot of it here:
https://www.civicx.com/threads/civic-si-break-in-questions.34813/#post-582322

It simply takes time for syncros to do their job and match the rotation of the gear to the mainshaft. Giving an extra half second between shifts is a huge behavior change, but one worth doing to ensure the syncros don't get damaged long term (IMHO).

Seems that Amsoil does a decent job promoting better syncro engagement. But it won't necessarily improve the sponginess going to even gears. You can try a different shift cable to see if things improve. Everything else is probably more for personal preference/feel (weight, bushings, knob, etc).




EDIT: Here's a good overview of some of the differences. The gold standard, the S2K's gearbox, has some gears that are triple syncro'd for better engagement. I believe our gearbox is all single syncros, which is probably done for cost.

I really don't have any issues with the tranny, if I am really careful I can even avoid the notchy sound going from 1st to 2nd and 3rd to 4th. Actually getting rid of rev hang made it slightly bumpy as the rpm drop between shifts is pretty rapid and sometimes causes the car to slightly lurch. I am actually thinking of re-enabling it. Changing to Amsoil really made slightly annoying shifting a now smoother fun experience, for me at least. The car with the smoothest MT I have ever driven was the 86 VW GTI I owned back in my younger days, although it did occasionally second gear grind during hard driving

 

[amirza786]

I guess my next question is how many quarts to order. Is two enough or does it take slightly more so I should order three?

All you need is 2 quarts (the tranny takes 1.9 quarts)

 

[Design]

I really don't have any issues with the tranny, if I am really careful I can even avoid the notchy sound going from 1st to 2nd and 3rd to 4th. Actually getting rid of rev hang made it slightly bumpy as the rpm drop between shifts is pretty rapid and sometimes causes the car to slightly lurch. I am actually thinking of re-enabling it. Changing to Amsoil really made slightly annoying shifting a now smoother fun experience, for me at least. The car with the smoothest MT I have ever driven was the 86 VW GTI I owned back in my younger days, although it did occasionally second gear grind during hard driving

It sounds like you're giving a little extra time for the syncros to rev match by holding the shifter against the gate a little longer before engaging. For me, that approach resolved the small engagement issues I was experiencing during normal driving.

The rev hang you speak of, touches upon a larger issue from which I have concerns (oil stability). Reducing it too much can promote a lot of extra droplets/vapors, which could make their way back through the PCV to the intake valves. A discussion for another thread.

 

[amirza786]

It sounds like you're giving a little extra time for the syncros to rev match by holding the shifter against the gate a little longer before engaging. For me, that approach resolved the small engagement issues I was experiencing during normal driving.

The rev hang you speak of, touches upon a larger issue from which I have concerns (oil stability). Reducing it too much can promote a lot of extra droplets/vapors, which could make their way back through the PCV to the intake valves. A discussion for another thread.

That's an interesting observation. I had no problem with it when it was enabled, I will probably re-enable it again

 

[fenix-silver]

The rev hang you speak of, touches upon a larger issue from which I have concerns (oil stability). Reducing it too much can promote a lot of extra droplets/vapors, which could make their way back through the PCV to the intake valves. A discussion for another thread.

Has this been discussed elsewhere that you know of? I'm intrigued.

 

[amirza786]

Has this been discussed elsewhere that you know of? I'm intrigued.

As @Design touched on, one of the reasons it exists is for emissions, but again that is another topic for another discussion

 

[fenix-silver]

As @Design touched on, one of the reasons it exists is for emissions, but again that is another topic for another discussion

That part I'm aware of. I was speaking of the possible issues that come from eliminating/reducing the rev hang w/ regards to causing intake valve build-up. Just found an article that talks about it a bit here: https://www.carthrottle.com/post/rev-hang-explained-and-why-petrolheads-hate-it/ From the article: "This strategy is used because it was found that suddenly closing the throttle produced a sudden spike in gas pressure within the crankcase which emphasised the rate of oil vaporisation, thus adding to emissions from the engine. Also, when the throttle is suddenly shut, the fuel mixture suddenly becomes lean which creates NOx (oxides of Nitrogen) which also contributes to emissions."

 

[amirza786]

That part I'm aware of. I was speaking of the possible issues that come from eliminating/reducing the rev hang w/ regards to causing intake valve build-up. Just found an article that talks about it a bit here: https://www.carthrottle.com/post/rev-hang-explained-and-why-petrolheads-hate-it/ From the article: "This strategy is used because it was found that suddenly closing the throttle produced a sudden spike in gas pressure within the crankcase which emphasised the rate of oil vaporisation, thus adding to emissions from the engine. Also, when the throttle is suddenly shut, the fuel mixture suddenly becomes lean which creates NOx (oxides of Nitrogen) which also contributes to emissions."

Yes, that is correct. I've seen this article a while back

 

[Davsonamission]

I have driven manuals all my life and do not get all the hate for this shifter/set-up. Is it notchy? Yeah it is, but I like it that way. I like the reassuring click into gear personally and honestly the more I drive it the less notchy it has become, but it is still there. You want to talk about shit shifters/manuals try driving an 1987 VW Jetta XD

 

[nrcivicsi10g]

I have driven manuals all my life and do not get all the hate for this shifter/set-up. Is it notchy? Yeah it is, but I like it that way. I like the reassuring click into gear personally and honestly the more I drive it the less notchy it has become, but it is still there. You want to talk about shit shifters/manuals try driving an 1987 VW Jetta XD

I don’t really mind the notchiness, but the issue for me (and some other people) is that - that’s not ALL that it is. The syncro nibbling and grinding(ish) feel of - what I assume is - the synchros needing a little extra time to do their job, as mentioned, can really detract from the overall feel of the shift. As I mentioned before, my SI is a lease that I will likely be buying out as I really do love this car. Just wish I would’ve waited for the ‘19s to snag that volume knob (lol).

But realistically, with the amsoil, the shifter feels great - ESPECIALLY once the car is warmed up. That’s when it really shines. Although the amsoil has significant reduced cold-start gear shift crunchiness.

In the event I buy the lease out, I will very likely be changing out the shifter, the bearings, and swapping out the exhaust. One of my biggest reservations on the car was the shifter but so far, the Amsoil has made a significant improvement all on its own.

Now, if I could only hit that 6.5s 0-60

 

[das borgen]

I'll report back on Monday. That's when I'm changing out my MTF from stock to Amsoil MTF after 28k miles and 1.5 years of ownership

 

[Davsonamission]

I don’t really mind the notchiness, but the issue for me (and some other people) is that - that’s not ALL that it is. The syncro nibbling and grinding(ish) feel of - what I assume is - the synchros needing a little extra time to do their job, as mentioned, can really detract from the overall feel of the shift. As I mentioned before, my SI is a lease that I will likely be buying out as I really do love this car. Just wish I would’ve waited for the ‘19s to snag that volume knob (lol).

But realistically, with the amsoil, the shifter feels great - ESPECIALLY once the car is warmed up. That’s when it really shines. Although the amsoil has significant reduced cold-start gear shift crunchiness.

In the event I buy the lease out, I will very likely be changing out the shifter, the bearings, and swapping out the exhaust. One of my biggest reservations on the car was the shifter but so far, the Amsoil has made a significant improvement all on its own.

Now, if I could only hit that 6.5s 0-60

I must have been lucky then because there is absolutely zero grinding feeling and I have over 25k on my car with a ktuner installed. Hope you find your solution...

 

[mvela]

Yesterday I made a change to my programming using ktuner. Another member mentioned that when you select “throttle response level 2” it improved his shifting. So I tried it and wow it definitely improved! It makes the rpms go up and down faster according to throttle pedal demand. Since it is all computer controlled, this adjustment allows you to let off the gas and shift the gear without having to wait that extra second for the rpms to drop. You can go right through the gears! Also it might be important to mention that I have a 2.0 non turbo. So I’m not sure if the turbo engines will have similar results. But if you have a ktuner you should try level 1 and if it still doesn’t fall fast enough then go to level 2 and see how that feels. Level 2 was perfect for me

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