AWE Touring not a true 3in exhaust?

[Josh/AWE]

Hi, everyone! All this commotion and no invite? Anywho, happy '22 to all of ya.

Allow me to shed some insight.

I can see where the confusion lies in the verbiage. "Full 3'" implied the exhaust route remained 3" after the inlet of the front pipe, to the tips, with virtually no reductions. Which it does. Since this was obviously confusing per the above, the word "full" has been omitted to prevent further assumptions.

Re: the flange of the front pipe, and why we did it, the following context has also been added.

We decided to reuse the factory-style flange and gasket for reliability and long-term performance. The factory's double-layer steel gasket design is vastly superior to any aftermarket flat gasket. This design allows for the gasket to be fully captured by the machined groove in the flange, eliminating any possibility of blowout or deterioration over long-term use. Additionally, it is fully serviceable, unlike a flat gasket that can stick to the mating flanges and tear upon removal.

All of our designs work with factory components upstream -- we don't tamper with emissions equipment. Designing to the factory outlet is common, thus why aftermarket downpipes are designed to work with the inlet of factory exhausts.

Furthermore, when mated to the factory DP or any aftermarket DP that utilizes the factory flange (e.g. PRL, which is what we utilized during R&D, and also the DP equipped in one of our product video), there is no restriction.

Hope this helps cure curiosity and educates on the matter a bit.

Feel free to hit me or @Sara/AWE with any questions!

Why couldn't AWE accomplish this?

I would also like to point out the images of their front pipe that are used in their product listing. I'm not going to accuse them of doing this intentionally, but in all of them the reduction is hidden/obfuscated enough that you'd be hard-pressed to notice.

And here's one that almost shows it that as of this post is NOT featured on their own website, but is still present on the TSP listing:

Bit of a reach here, LBP. Any images included on dealer websites are... from our website. Being the person who took these photos, there was nothing to "hide", thus the reason for shooting the image of the flange. Cheers.

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[LBP]

@Josh/AWE Your reasons for choosing a particular flange style are well and good, but the fact remains that prior to today AWE claimed that it is a "full 3" system" with a "full 3" front pipe," and AWE advertised it as such, when it demonstrably is not. It tapers.

I see that you've recently updated your website's product listing to include the information that you posted here, and no longer claim that it is a "full 3" system." Thank you. Perhaps you should have your distributors do the same. While you're at it, why not also include that it doesn't just use a "factory style flange and gasket," but also tapers to the factory diameter to accommodate that? You know, measurements and such, to prevent confusion.

And, for the record, the inlet flange of the front pipe has no more effect on the catalyst, or emissions, than anything else downstream.

Bit of a reach here, LBP. Any images included on dealer websites are... from our website. Being the person who took these photos, there was nothing to "hide", thus the reason for shooting the image of the flange. Cheers.

Where's the reach? Maybe you misunderstood me. Here's an archive of your own product listing from today, and one more archive for good measure.

Here is a screenshot of the product images available on it:

The shot that clearly shows the flange face, which I pulled from the TSP listing, is not present. I did not imply that the images originated from anywhere else. I simply noted that particular image is missing from your own website, and none of the other images clearly show the flange face or the taper.

EDIT: I would also like to add that I do greatly appreciate that you are interfacing with us and have made some listing changes to alleviate confusion. Props for that. One of the specific key reasons that I had purchased this exhaust was the belief that it had a large-bore inlet flange and no taper, so unfortunately it ended up not being the product for me. It's a shame, because the other qualities are great.

 

[Josh/AWE]

@Josh/AWE Your reasons for choosing a particular flange style are well and good, but the fact remains that prior to today AWE claimed that it is a "full 3" system" with a "full 3" front pipe," and AWE advertised it as such, when it demonstrably is not. It tapers.

I see that you've recently updated your website's product listing to include the information that you posted here, and no longer claim that it is a "full 3" system." Thank you. Perhaps you should have your distributors do the same. While you're at it, why not also include that it doesn't just use a "factory style flange and gasket," but also tapers to the factory diameter to accommodate that? You know, measurements and such, to prevent confusion.

And, for the record, the inlet flange of the front pipe has no more effect on the catalyst, or emissions, than anything else downstream.


Where's the reach? Maybe you misunderstood me. Here's an archive of your own product listing from today, and one more archive for good measure.

Here is a screenshot of the product images available on it:

The shot that clearly shows the flange face, which I pulled from the TSP listing, is not present. I did not imply that the images originated from anywhere else. I simply noted that particular image is missing from your own website.

Indeed I did misunderstand! The FK8 section vs the topic at hand did me no service here. Regardless, it's there now. Seemed to have been untoggled on the backend during a page update in the past. Thank ya much for the clarity and insight from the other side of the screen. It will hopefully prevent any further presumptions ?

Re: updating dealers... already in motion since this topic was brought to my attention this morn! Though the network is big and has a few channels to go through until getting to everyone. But I'm on it, nonetheless. ?

To be clear, occasions like this, (albiet they don't need to feel like there are pitchforks present) really have a silver lining -- and that is the fact we truly listen to y'all and do our best to develop to the driver's needs/desires that typically develop as platforms progress in age. With that said, if there is a want for evolution in an offering to accommodate a new "need," we're down to open the case at headquarters for evaluation for dev.

E.g. the (really) rad DualPhase Midpipe we engineered for CTRs with DPs. We received reports things were too rowdy inside for some folks, so we birthed something never done before in such a package... and it's awesome.

The point being, we're here for everyone with nothin' to hide.

Knowing we're all here in this moment in time because of a fine line in terminology, I understand it's subjective to who you ask and their definition. But big picture, if it's something that's wanted, we have no issue in evaluating. ?

 

[LBP]

@Josh/AWE Great to hear! I know for a fact that a taper at the inlet flange is not a deal breaker for most people. After all, virtually every other exhaust system for these platforms has a taper at the inlet, and those don't even include a front pipe. That doesn't stop people from buying them and enjoying them. I'm very particular and discrepancies on product listings (intentional or unintentional) are very bothersome, and make me very bothersome.

If there's ever a revised AWE front pipe, I'd be very interested. I'm willing to bet that a lot of other people here would be excited about that as well. Plus, you'd be part of a very exclusive club as likely the only provider of an end-to-end 3" system that includes a front pipe.

 

[Crough]

PRL, for instance, has a simple design that allows for a full 3" end-to-end front pipe which fits the factory downpipe and most every aftermarket design (Except RV6 - uses a V-Band), by use of a non-factory gasket.

FYI, I don't know how it works, but if you ask PRL they say their front pipe fits the RV6 downpipe.

I did exactly that.

I didn't do the install myself, but my mechanic had no issue making it work.

 

[Lagos]

Sarah and Josh .. thank you for your feedback. Will you be updating the product attributes on your website to make this diameter reduction more clearly communicated to the customer?

 

[LBP]

FYI, I don't know how it works, but if you ask PRL they say their front pipe fits the RV6 downpipe.

I did exactly that.

I didn't do the install myself, but my mechanic had no issue making it work.

Oh, you know what, you're absolutely right. My bad. The RV6 Downpipe comes with an adapter to make it fit other front pipe designs. I was thinking of their front pipe - that uses the same v-band connection that the adapter uses to eliminate the adapter and flange entirely, and is only compatible with the RV6 downpipe. Thanks for the correction. Updated my post.

RV6 downpipe w/ adapter

RV6 front pipe

RV6 downpipe w/ RV6 front pipe

 

[Crough]

Oh, you know what, you're absolutely right. My bad. The RV6 Downpipe comes with an adapter to make it fit other front pipe designs. I was thinking of their front pipe - that uses the same v-band connection that the adapter uses to eliminate the adapter and flange entirely, and is only compatible with the RV6 downpipe. Thanks for the correction. Updated my post.

RV6 downpipe w/ adapter

RV6 front pipe

RV6 downpipe w/ RV6 front pipe

No problem, and thanks for all the important information. You've pushed me towards the HKS Legamax.

 

[LBP]

No problem, and thanks for all the important information. You've pushed me towards the HKS Legamax.

Since you have an FK7 hatch, I don't think AWE makes an exhaust for your platform anyway, so... glad I could help? ?

But hey, I hate to rain on your parade, and don't take my word for this, but I have heard that the tips of the HKS exhausts can develop a rattle because they are riveted on. Also, I think the HKS Legamax for the FK7 is 2-3/8" OD end to end, in case you were concerned with finding a 3" system. So, for your sake please look into it first. I'm not very familiar with the hatchback exhaust systems and can't help more, sorry. If you do get it, I hope it's everything you want!

 

[Crough]

Since you have an FK7 hatch, I don't think AWE makes an exhaust for your platform anyway, so... glad I could help? ?

But hey, I hate to rain on your parade, and don't take my word for this, but I have heard that the tips of the HKS exhausts can develop a rattle because they are riveted on. Also, I think the HKS Legamax for the FK7 is 2-3/8" OD end to end, in case you were concerned with finding a 3" system. So, for your sake please look into it first. I'm not very familiar with the hatchback exhaust systems and can't help more, sorry. If you do get it, I hope it's everything you want!

I wasn't no spidering AWE for the obvious reasons you posted, but you had good things to say about HKS and I was already considering them.

I'd seen the Legamax advertised as full 3'', so I guess I'll look closer.

 

[LBP]

I wasn't no spidering AWE for the obvious reasons you posted, but you had good things to say about HKS and I was already considering them.

I'd seen the Legamax advertised as full 3'', so I guess I'll look closer.

Are you sure that was me? I think @Lagos is the only other person in the thread that's mentioned HKS.

As for the diameter specs, HKS USA claims 2.4" piping diameter and this listing says that it's 60mm which would be 2.36" so just about 2.4".

 

[Crough]

Are you sure that was me? I think @Lagos is the only other person in the thread that's mentioned HKS.

As for the diameter specs, HKS USA claims 2.4" piping diameter and this listing says that it's 60mm which would be 2.36" so just about 2.4".

Ya, looks like I mixed you two up.

It also looks like you were right, the HKS Legamax FK8 exhaust is the 3'' one, their FK7 exhaust is a different diameter. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[MarcusgibbS]

Thermal r&d comes with a front pipe but only a flange on the dp side, the rest uses band clamps. Which I really like btw.
I didn’t measure it so I don’t know the comparison but it’s the same tubing diameter throughout….

 

[Vincent@27WON]

I feel like I have beat a dead horse on this topic and have done so much on my web-listing and product video to get this message across. If you want a true 3" exhaust order ours. Its the only one with no step downs, reductions, small flanges, whatever.

True 3

 

[LBP]

@Vincent@27WON

Nice kit. Looks like, besides the Helmholtz resonator branches, everything on yours is 3" OD. Even the three branches for the tips. I don't think Skunk2's Type R kit can claim that either, since if the muffler section on that is similar to the one I have for my Si, the single 3" pipe splits into two 2.3" branches for the mufflers. Although I would add that the combined cross-sectional area of those two 2.3" branches equals ~115% the area of the single 3", so no issue, but still. Props for your design and accurate marketing.

BTW I love the shift knob I ordered from you guys. I'm excited to snag a strut tower bar soon.

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