Are 2020 Civic Type R's Still Overheating on track?

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dsm_mikey

dsm_mikey

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Thank you everyone for your input!

It would be great to have actual 2020 owners who have run bone stock chime in!

I am guessing the changes have helped delay the onset of overheating as others have said.

I hope the changes have made a good difference.
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r00kie_c00kie

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If you plan to track the car I would recommend against the PRL and going with a PWR, HKS, or GReddy IC because they’re tube and fin. They’re able to dissipate heat faster and they flow more air through to the radiator. Once the PRL gets heat soaked you’re pretty much toast. The advantage though is that it can be harder to get heat soaked on the street
I researched other tube and fin ICs and Wagner Tuning is also another option.
Know of any ppl at the track with it and their experience?
 

Lust

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I researched other tube and fin ICs and Wagner Tuning is also another option.
Know of any ppl at the track with it and their experience?
I’ve heard of Wagner and heard good things but I haven’t seen any real data or race pedigree. No one I know runs one.
 

izzyC-EX

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What happens when it overheats, does it go on limp mode?
 


apexaddict

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I have a 2020 CTR and just ran at NCM this past weekend, so I can report some findings - nothing super scientific but my experience was positive. I've been autocrossing competitively for 15 years and doing track stuff for 10, so I think I have some idea of what I'm doing and run in Advanced group.

My car is factory stock with 1500 miles, aside from the following:
- Alignment (w/ strut assembly pins pulled)
- RBF600 fluid
- ST43 front pads
- 18x9.5 Apex wheels w/ 265/35/18 RE71Rs

Morning sessions were around 65-70 deg, going to 90 deg later in the day. In the morning sessions, I could do about 4-5 laps before the OE temp gauge started getting up to 65-75% (sorry, don't have specific temps to report). Laps at NCM are in the 2:20-2:22s, or 10-12 mins of drive time. In the afternoon, it was more like 3-4 laps before it started getting to this point. Once it would do this, I would do a cool down lap (or just follow traffic for a bit) and it would take maybe half a lap tops to go back down to normal operating temp (45-50% of OE temp gauge), then I could get another 2 laps or so before it heated up again.

The car certainly pulls boost/timing at higher temps - again, using OE gauges, the car would make 22-23lbs at lower temps, and once the coolant temps climbed it would drop to 17-18lbs. That was usually my trigger for a cool down lap.

For the happy hour session at the end of the day, I deliberately ran the car without a cooldown for nearly 30 minutes. It was definitely slow towards the end, but in combination with running the heater, it never once went into limp mode or otherwise did anything weird.

Personally, I don't really have an issue with any of this. In my experience, lots of cars need some management to some extent, and if this one's is "do a cooldown lap once in a while", then I'm OK with that. It never went into limp mode all day due to heat (I did once as a result of fuel starve), so my entire day was not ruined by overheating as some people have reported with the older cars.

As far as speed goes, most 200tw tires are falling off after 3-4 laps in ideal conditions anyway until they finish that heat cycle, so it's going to be rare 15-20 minutes in that you are getting that much faster outside of fixing significant driving mistakes. For time trials/time attack, you basically are going to set your fastest lap on the first 1-2 timed laps on tires alone.

Hopefully that helps someone.
 

ayau

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I have a 2020 CTR and just ran at NCM this past weekend, so I can report some findings - nothing super scientific but my experience was positive. I've been autocrossing competitively for 15 years and doing track stuff for 10, so I think I have some idea of what I'm doing and run in Advanced group.

My car is factory stock with 1500 miles, aside from the following:
- Alignment (w/ strut assembly pins pulled)
- RBF600 fluid
- ST43 front pads
- 18x9.5 Apex wheels w/ 265/35/18 RE71Rs

Morning sessions were around 65-70 deg, going to 90 deg later in the day. In the morning sessions, I could do about 4-5 laps before the OE temp gauge started getting up to 65-75% (sorry, don't have specific temps to report). Laps at NCM are in the 2:20-2:22s, or 10-12 mins of drive time. In the afternoon, it was more like 3-4 laps before it started getting to this point. Once it would do this, I would do a cool down lap (or just follow traffic for a bit) and it would take maybe half a lap tops to go back down to normal operating temp (45-50% of OE temp gauge), then I could get another 2 laps or so before it heated up again.

The car certainly pulls boost/timing at higher temps - again, using OE gauges, the car would make 22-23lbs at lower temps, and once the coolant temps climbed it would drop to 17-18lbs. That was usually my trigger for a cool down lap.

For the happy hour session at the end of the day, I deliberately ran the car without a cooldown for nearly 30 minutes. It was definitely slow towards the end, but in combination with running the heater, it never once went into limp mode or otherwise did anything weird.

Personally, I don't really have an issue with any of this. In my experience, lots of cars need some management to some extent, and if this one's is "do a cooldown lap once in a while", then I'm OK with that. It never went into limp mode all day due to heat (I did once as a result of fuel starve), so my entire day was not ruined by overheating as some people have reported with the older cars.

As far as speed goes, most 200tw tires are falling off after 3-4 laps in ideal conditions anyway until they finish that heat cycle, so it's going to be rare 15-20 minutes in that you are getting that much faster outside of fixing significant driving mistakes. For time trials/time attack, you basically are going to set your fastest lap on the first 1-2 timed laps on tires alone.

Hopefully that helps someone.
Did you run your heater on full blast for that 30 minute session or for all your sessions?

Have you considered running non-autox tires? Maybe something like the RS4 will give you more than just a few laps before the tires taper off.

Thanks for your input
 

apexaddict

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Did you run your heater on full blast for that 30 minute session or for all your sessions?

Have you considered running non-autox tires? Maybe something like the RS4 will give you more than just a few laps before the tires taper off.

Thanks for your input
I actually did not run the heater at all until the last 30 minute session, but it definitely did help to slow the heat buildup - way more than I expected it to, in fact.
 

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I researched other tube and fin ICs and Wagner Tuning is also another option.
Know of any ppl at the track with it and their experience?
I'm not so sure I would go tube and fin as others are discussing. It should heat and also cool quicker that's true but that's not the whole story. Flow vs heat rejection is the balance in intercoolers and you want the most of both. Bar and plate is technically the superior technology, but not to say a manufacturer couldn't design a plate fin intercooler to exceed in certain applications.

From Spearco:
Spearco produces both tube-and-fin and bar-and-plate intercoolers. With bar and plate being so superior, one has to wonder why. It's all about cost. The tube-and-fin core is much cheaper to produce and is often used in OE applications, which inherently run lower boost levels. http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0304-turp-intercooler/
 

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there are pro and cons for both.

bar and plate is heavier and flows less air past the core vs a tube and fin. They also take longer to heatsoak but once it is heatsoaked, it will take longer for you to shed the heat. It's wont really be an issue in day to day or occasional canyon driving but at the track when your doing 10/10 hot laps for 15-20min sessions, it can start being an issue.

when the intercooler cools the air charge, the air going past the intercooler is heated and goes to the radiator. That along with flowing less air past the core equals to a higher water temp. higher water temp also means higher oil temps.
 


Lust

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there are pro and cons for both.

bar and plate is heavier and flows less air past the core vs a tube and fin. They also take longer to heatsoak but once it is heatsoaked, it will take longer for you to shed the heat. It's wont really be an issue in day to day or occasional canyon driving but at the track when your doing 10/10 hot laps for 15-20min sessions, it can start being an issue.

when the intercooler cools the air charge, the air going past the intercooler is heated and goes to the radiator. That along with flowing less air past the core equals to a higher water temp. higher water temp also means higher oil temps.
I do feel like we’re beating a dead horse when we keep saying this. People think they can stuff the biggest intercooler they can find and not expect any trade offs. Both types of intercoolers have their place. Bar and plate ICs shouldn’t really be discussed though if we are talking about track duty.

Here’s how it plays out.

Massive bar and plate IC will keep IATs down for a period of time before being soaked.
It can create some lag (talking about Mishi and Perrin).
Once this heatsoaks, good luck shedding that heat.
Reduced airflow through the cooling stack (ic, condenser, radiator)
Results in increased ECT and OilT because your radiator isn’t cooling sufficiently
Power gets cut because of high ECT/OilT
Big bar and plate IC now useless since the car is pulling power anyways

I’m looking at it from a track car perspective which is what this thread is about. If you’re doing street driving like boosted180sx said, you won’t have this issue to full effect. My assumption would also be that if you’re doing drag racing, a bar and plate might suit you.
 

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Hey all. I literally just registered on this forum to post on this thread and share my personal experience with the ‘20 CTR. Like I said, my experience so take it for what it’s worth:
I drove the car in showroom stock condition, down to the heavy/oversized OEM wheels and skinny OEM Contis. I drove in the dead of summer (80-90 deg f) at Summit Point and VIR in HPDE 2 with NASA Mid Atlantic. Times at Summit averaged 1:32 with a best of 1:30 and at VIR 2:24 with a best of 2:22.
It’s very easy to overdrive the front end of the car on the stock wheels and tires and at the limit the over riding handling characteristic, especially in slower corners, is understeer. From what I’ve personally observed, in showroom stock configuration, there was absolutely no overheating whatsoever. I was able to run session after session and the car never pulled power and was totally and unflappably reliable.
My observation after having seen other CTRs on track and reading all the posts on this forum is this: The ‘20 CTR is track reliable in showroom stock condition. It looks like the car struggles with heat once mods are thrown at the car to increase power OR, and this is a big “OR”, to enhance the handling of the car. Less understeer and higher grip would allow me to use more throttle more often. In 2021 I am going with 265 section width tires in lighter aftermarket wheels along with a stiffer aftermarket rear sway after that. My hope is that the car takes those mods in stride. I truly wanted a wash and run track car and so far, in my limited experience with the car, Honda has delivered.
I’ll report my experiences next season on the new shoes.
hopefully this gives some perspective buyers a bit more clarity.
 

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Hey all. I literally just registered on this forum to post on this thread and share my personal experience with the ‘20 CTR. Like I said, my experience so take it for what it’s worth:
I drove the car in showroom stock condition, down to the heavy/oversized OEM wheels and skinny OEM Contis. I drove in the dead of summer (80-90 deg f) at Summit Point and VIR in HPDE 2 with NASA Mid Atlantic. Times at Summit averaged 1:32 with a best of 1:30 and at VIR 2:24 with a best of 2:22.
It’s very easy to overdrive the front end of the car on the stock wheels and tires and at the limit the over riding handling characteristic, especially in slower corners, is understeer. From what I’ve personally observed, in showroom stock configuration, there was absolutely no overheating whatsoever. I was able to run session after session and the car never pulled power and was totally and unflappably reliable.
My observation after having seen other CTRs on track and reading all the posts on this forum is this: The ‘20 CTR is track reliable in showroom stock condition. It looks like the car struggles with heat once mods are thrown at the car to increase power OR, and this is a big “OR”, to enhance the handling of the car. Less understeer and higher grip would allow me to use more throttle more often. In 2021 I am going with 265 section width tires in lighter aftermarket wheels along with a stiffer aftermarket rear sway after that. My hope is that the car takes those mods in stride. I truly wanted a wash and run track car and so far, in my limited experience with the car, Honda has delivered.
I’ll report my experiences next season on the new shoes.
hopefully this gives some perspective buyers a bit more clarity.
Can't wait to go out there with my car on 20 psi
 

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Here’s my update: Still inconclusive.

Ran the ‘20 Type R at VIR this past weekend. NASA MA HPDE 2.

She’s wearing 265 35R 18 Nitto NT05s (200 tread wear rating) on Titan 7 T-D6 wheels (18x9.5 +45). Everything else is still show room stock.

The car did great. No problems except for a self induced fuel starvation issue (you really can’t do more than 2 sessions between full ups). Totally reliable.

For reference my best time was 2.16.34 with multiple laps in the 2.16s.

I say the results are inconclusive because even though the car was perfect with no overheating, ambient temps only reached the mid ‘70s.

I’m hoping to hit Summit Point later in the season and I’ll let you know how she goes.
 

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Here’s my update: Still inconclusive.

Ran the ‘20 Type R at VIR this past weekend. NASA MA HPDE 2.

She’s wearing 265 35R 18 Nitto NT05s (200 tread wear rating) on Titan 7 T-D6 wheels (18x9.5 +45). Everything else is still show room stock.

The car did great. No problems except for a self induced fuel starvation issue (you really can’t do more than 2 sessions between full ups). Totally reliable.

For reference my best time was 2.16.34 with multiple laps in the 2.16s.

I say the results are inconclusive because even though the car was perfect with no overheating, ambient temps only reached the mid ‘70s.

I’m hoping to hit Summit Point later in the season and I’ll let you know how she goes.
I think the car does better in a faster (VIR) circuit and in lower ambient temps (last weekend in Virginia). Yep, no better time to track it than spring and fall. Enjoy!
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