Anyone compared Si to Civic (no LSD) in snow?

amirza786

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I'm going to chime back in here and say part of what you said is false. Reason being is because an LSD will help you in straight conditions, but it certainly will help you in less traction conditions including going around corners. With an LSD, power is going to be diverted to the one with the most traction, where an open diff is always going to start to send power to the one with least traction. When you're going around a corner, this LSD will ensure power is getting sent to the correct wheel for traction, which in conjunction with traction control will help you even more. However there are still some situations where you want to turn traction control off, but those are pretty rare. There are a few types of LSDs out there, which can change the exact reaction and also varies from FWD or RWD platforms. For us, our cars have the Helical type.

Another thing to take into consideration here is that a manual transmission will always have an advantage over automatic in these situations too. You have much more control over power getting to the wheels (gas/clutch input and gear choice), where an automatic you're pretty stuck. If you had a FWD LSD manual and a FWD LSD automatic, the manual platform would outperform, especially from a dead stop in slippery/snowy conditions.
Yes, I agree with you in turns and around corners. But straight line taking off from a stop light an LSD helps a little (especially with Torque Steer when the tires are spinning), but traction control tends to even things out by pulling power, statrigic braking etc
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I know I am weighing in a bit late, but here it goes. What an LSD will do is help you go "straight" in icy conditions, but it's not going to help you any better with slipping or traction. The two things that are going to help you are 1) good tires and 2) traction/stability control. I've driven several different types of cars, fwd and rwd with open diff and fwd and rwd with LSD and E-LSD. The only thing that made a difference was trac control kicking in on both types of diffs
Thanks, definitely not too late. Not quite sure what you mean though, does the LSD make traction control interfere less? I always turn it off on my Sport in the snow anyway, but I assume Stability control isn't turning off.

I've driven RWD (no LSD) for like 15 years in snow, so I generally turn off Traction and leave on Stability. Not sure that's how Honda's work though.
I have two issues in the Civic in snow:
1. Driving on a snowy highway, having to change lanes and going over humps of snow between the lanes - I figure an LSD might help with this since tires are losing traction one at a time?
2. Starting from a stop, especially turning, one wheel spins a lot in snow. Thought LSD might help that?

I don't really have any trouble in corners, very used to cornering in snow.
 
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I'm going to chime back in here and say part of what you said is false. Reason being is because an LSD will help you in straight conditions, but it certainly will help you in less traction conditions including going around corners. With an LSD, power is going to be diverted to the one with the most traction (or 50/50, etc. depending on vehicle and conditions), where an open diff is always going to start to send power to the one with least traction. When you're going around a corner, this LSD will ensure power is getting sent to the correct wheel for traction, which in conjunction with traction control will help you even more. However there are still some situations where you want to turn traction control off, but those are pretty rare. There are a few types of LSDs out there, which can change the exact reaction and also varies from FWD or RWD platforms. For us, our cars have the Helical type.

Another thing to take into consideration here is that a manual transmission will always have an advantage over automatic in these situations too. You have much more control over power getting to the wheels (gas/clutch input and gear choice), where an automatic you're pretty stuck. If you had a FWD LSD manual and a FWD LSD automatic, the manual platform would outperform, especially from a dead stop in slippery/snowy conditions.
Thanks, that makes more sense to me. Do you know if the Si fully disables stability when you press the traction button, or just traction control? I assume the latter? My BMW with traction control off used to let you rotate quite a bit before stability would step in and stop you from spinning out. I haven't tested that out in the Civic since it doesn't like to rotate even in snow.
 
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Yes, I agree with you in turns and around corners. But straight line taking off from a stop light an LSD helps a little (especially with Torque Steer when the tires are spinning), but traction control tends to even things out by pulling power, statrigic braking etc
Traction control typically only cuts throttle, while stability control will individually brake your wheels to keep the car from spinning. That's how it works in most cars but not sure about the Civics.
 

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Thanks, definitely not too late. Not quite sure what you mean though, does the LSD make traction control interfere less? I always turn it off on my Sport in the snow anyway, but I assume Stability control isn't turning off.

I've driven RWD (no LSD) for like 15 years in snow, so I generally turn off Traction and leave on Stability. Not sure that's how Honda's work though.
I have two issues in the Civic in snow:
1. Driving on a snowy highway, having to change lanes and going over humps of snow between the lanes - I figure an LSD might help with this since tires are losing traction one at a time?
2. Starting from a stop, especially turning, one wheel spins a lot in snow. Thought LSD might help that?

I don't really have any trouble in corners, very used to cornering in snow.
No, traction control has nothing to do with the LSD and does not interfere with it. The LSD is basically a locking diff that will allow the wheel with less traction to spin, this is especially helpful in turns where only one wheel has power with open diffs. Traction control works the same regardless if you have an opendiff, LSD or any variations. Traction control works by pulling power when the wheels lose traction and stability control will strategically applying braking to keep the car in control
 


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In my experience, the LSD helps quite a bit in the snow. I am still on the Goodyear all season tires, so that's another big factor. I've had it help mostly on inclines where I've felt the fronts lock up and pull me up.
 
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I'm going to chime back in here and say part of what you said is false. Reason being is because an LSD will help you in straight conditions, but it certainly will help you in less traction conditions including going around corners. With an LSD, power is going to be diverted to the one with the most traction (or 50/50, etc. depending on vehicle and conditions), where an open diff is always going to start to send power to the one with least traction. When you're going around a corner, this LSD will ensure power is getting sent to the correct wheel for traction, which in conjunction with traction control will help you even more. However there are still some situations where you want to turn traction control off, but those are pretty rare. There are a few types of LSDs out there, which can change the exact reaction and also varies from FWD or RWD platforms. For us, our cars have the Helical type.

Another thing to take into consideration here is that a manual transmission will always have an advantage over automatic in these situations too. You have much more control over power getting to the wheels (gas/clutch input and gear choice), where an automatic you're pretty stuck. If you had a FWD LSD manual and a FWD LSD automatic, the manual platform would outperform, especially from a dead stop in slippery/snowy conditions.
In my experience, the LSD helps quite a bit in the snow. I am still on the Goodyear all season tires, so that's another big factor. I've had it help mostly on inclines where I've felt the fronts lock up and pull me up.
Thanks guys, you're really selling me on the Si lol. I do field service so sometimes I have to drive 200 miles in the snow. I drove to Dartmouth NH every day for weeks this winter, uggh.

The thought of LEDs and an LSD is getting attractive.
 

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Thanks guys, you're really selling me on the Si lol. I do field service so sometimes I have to drive 200 miles in the snow. I drove to Dartmouth NH every day for weeks this winter, uggh.

The thought of LEDs and an LSD is getting attractive.
I'm right here in NH too and drive through the same conditions you are. I would definitely go the Si route if you don't mind a coupe or sedan and a manual. Not sure the invoice price on the hatch, but I know most people including myself are getting the 2020 Si for around $22k, and for me it was $22,600 all in OTD. Few threads on that subject here already though lol. Good luck!
 
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I'm right here in NH too and drive through the same conditions you are. I would definitely go the Si route if you don't mind a coupe or sedan and a manual. Not sure the invoice price on the hatch, but I know most people including myself are getting the 2020 Si for around $22k, and for me it was $22,600 all in OTD. Few threads on that subject here already though lol. Good luck!
Thanks, yeah, there's a white one nearby, I might ask them to bring it over for a test drive. I think they offer that. :) Hopefully the Loyalty rebate is renewed tomorrow.
 

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Traction control off limits how much power the computer pulls but stability control is still active. In the snow, yes the tuning of the traction control severely interferes with the ability of the LSD to do its job. I have seen this from experience. On ice though, if both tires have an equally small amount of traction, LSD is little help, because the grip is so low. But, for example on a hilly icy driveway, getting to top, wheels turned left, both spinning significantly, as the outer wheel hits the pavement and gets a little traction, yes the LSD pulls you out. I experienced that this past winter. In previous cars with open diff, it would not have made it.
 


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Traction control off limits how much power the computer pulls but stability control is still active. In the snow, yes the tuning of the traction control severely interferes with the ability of the LSD to do its job. I have seen this from experience. On ice though, if both tires have an equally small amount of traction, LSD is little help, because the grip is so low. But, for example on a hilly icy driveway, getting to top, wheels turned left, both spinning significantly, as the outer wheel hits the pavement and gets a little traction, yes the LSD pulls you out. I experienced that this past winter. In previous cars with open diff, it would not have made it.
Thanks!

Sometimes I wonder if traction control actually helps in any situation. I guess if you lose all traction and you clumsily just keep your foot down on the gas, it would help get the tires out of the lower traction regime. Personally if I could permanently disable it I would. Just keep stability, that's very helpful.
 

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Thanks!

Sometimes I wonder if traction control actually helps in any situation. I guess if you lose all traction and you clumsily just keep your foot down on the gas, it would help get the tires out of the lower traction regime. Personally if I could permanently disable it I would. Just keep stability, that's very helpful.
Well, it is possible to fully disable using “pedal dance” but I’ve found pressing button for VSA off is enough for street situations. This leaves stability control on, and I have been in a situation where it does activate. Especially with a manual car, traction control has no value at all if you are stuck. It kills power and you will stall. I pretty much drive everywhere with the VSA off button engaged.
 
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We had our first snow, though it mostly melted before I could drive on it. But I got to drive the Si on some icy patches and wet 35 degree roads, and can confirm the LSD makes a huge difference in winter driving as I had hoped. I'm still on the crappy stock tires too.
 

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I don't care what tires you have, going 90mph in "heavy rain" sounds like a death wish :fear:
No OP, but I do often enough. I regularly drive the Coquihalla in British Columbia. It's essentially a Freeway Canyon run. In the summers the limit is 120km, with fines not being enforced until 160km.

Ive run into heavy rains, and I usually cruise them at 130km. The Goodyears were soooooo baaaad. I've switched and the driving is so much more stable.
 
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Bumping this cause I drove in more significant snow yesterday, and the LSD is a revelation in the Civic - it feels pretty close to something like an AWD Impreza. I'm on the stock tires which are pretty new (6500 miles), but it's still better than my Sport hatch was w/ real snow tires. I have a winter set with Nokians on it waiting at the tire shop, but now I think they might be unnecessary, oops. We don't get snow like we used to up here.
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