1.5T Any High Torque CVT fluid?

[magshell]

It seems Nissan developed a special cvt oil for their high torque CVT. Subaru also has a high torque cvt fluid

Does anyone know of anything similar or applicable that can be used with our Honda CVT to get it beyond the theoretical 250lbft torque?

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[jayy_swish]

It seems Nissan developed a special cvt oil for their high torque CVT. Subaru also has a high torque cvt fluid

Does anyone know of anything similar or applicable that can be used with our Honda CVT to get it beyond the theoretical 250lbft torque?

Fluid wouldn’t help the transmission’s torque limits, the limits are there because of the band inside the transmission that operates the pulleys (see photo). You exceed the torque you break the band in the CVT and it’s a dead transmission. A band consist of a few bands of metal sandwiches together by metal “teeth” pieces

 

[Marko]

Honda Civic (USA) release 2015 - 2020. have 2(!) models of CVT transmission

1. model M-CVT (modification transmission JDJC)
2 model LL-CVT (modification transmission MCKA)

These cars, in addition to the turbocharged 1.5 engine (models L15B7), are also equipped with a Honda CVT model LL-CVT, but of various modifications MCKA

CVT Oil LL-CVT

Oil for CVT models LL-CVT (MCKA, BA7A, BRHA, BRGA) is used only (!) Honda HCF-2 specification. It is necessary (for replacement) only 3.7 liters.
The original oil, depending on the market for sale, has different packaging and different catalog numbers. Here we have specially collected the articles for you:

1. HONDA Article: 0826099964. Capacity: 4 L, (metal canister)
2. HONDA Article 0826999905HE. Capacity: 4 L, (plastic canister)
3. HONDA Article 08200HCF2 Capacity: 0.96 l. (plastic canister)

Of the non-original oils that are specially (!) Created by one or another manufacturer for the Honda HCF-2 specification, today these are oils from Ravenol (RAVENOL HCF-2 Fluid), they have the numbers 1211142-001 (1 liter), 1211142-004 (4 liters) and 1211142-020 (20 liters) -

There are also other manufacturers that produce "universal fluids" for CVTs, which (note that "according to the manufacturers' data") also comply with Honda HCF-2 specifications. How true this is is no information. Here it is more likely a question of consumer confidence in a particular brand.

more detailed information (with diagrams, photographs) is here - https://www.drive2.ru/o/b/558428487803732121/

 

[Myx]

It seems Nissan developed a special cvt oil for their high torque CVT. Subaru also has a high torque cvt fluid

Does anyone know of anything similar or applicable that can be used with our Honda CVT to get it beyond the theoretical 250lbft torque?

That's a good question. As is mentioned above, I have not read of any oil that would help the CVT deal with more torque. I personally have contacted a few companies in the past that deal with scooters that have CVTs and make them faster and stronger, to see if they were willing to work with me as a guinea pig to try and make a stronger belt and/or lighter pulleys to help with performance and stress of the Honda CVT with no luck.

One unpopular approach you can try to take is to get your torque as close to or at the peak torque allowed (Every dyno is different of course but well known tuners can tune for this) and then try to help the CVT do more work with the same energy. Things like getting stronger/lighter pistons/connecting rods, lighter driveshaft, lighter wheels/tires, etc.

I've since went with lighter wheels/tires to reduce the amount of work the CVT has to do to turn the driveshaft and the wheels/tires themselves. That same 250ft-lbs of torque will help your car get up to speed quicker by doing this. May help with the CVT's longevity as well since the CVT doesn't have to do as much work to do the same job.

Just another approach to try to help achieve the same goal. And something you have control over and can do. Good luck!

 

[Hondanickx]

Wouldn't it be easier to just swap in the cvt from a accord or crv 1.5t ?
Since they have more power and torque from factory they would also be made with a stronger transmission.Also they can tow much more weight so the transmission/cvt/belt must be stronger .

 

[magshell]

Fluid wouldn’t help the transmission’s torque limits, the limits are there because of the band inside the transmission that operates the pulleys (see photo). You exceed the torque you break the band in the CVT and it’s a dead transmission. A band consist of a few bands of metal sandwiches together by metal “teeth” pieces

The scorching on Hondata's test made it seem that friction between the belt and pulley gave out before the belt.

Engineering Explained discussing how Nissan's "CVT Traction Oil" helps transfer torque through a lubricant made me hopeful that such a technology would help the belt in our CVT transfer power without slipping and scorching like the Hondata case.

Thoughts?

 

[Marko]

[QUOTE = "magshell, post: 813113, member: 32799"]

[/ QUOTE]

what video is this image taken from? Can I link to youtube?

 

[jayy_swish]

Wouldn't it be easier to just swap in the cvt from a accord or crv 1.5t ?
Since they have more power and torque from factory they would also be made with a stronger transmission.Also they can tow much more weight so the transmission/cvt/belt must be stronger .

Not 100% sure because I’ve never seen a transmission pulled from all the vehicles to fully compared, but I’m sure they all have the same transmission, maybe just different housing If they mount up differently on the vehicle, but internal wise it might be the same (if any of them are to have a different transmission it would probably be the accord). If civic transmission can hold 250 lb ft of tq then it can handle the additional 30 lb ft of torque that the accord comes in (Civic sport 162 lb-ft vs Accord 192 lb-ft vs CRV 179 lb-ft). The boost of torque the accord see’s from the factory is probably thanks in part to it having vtec. Truth be told a CVT wasn’t designed to hold high power and torque, it is meant for fuel efficiency. If Honda really wanted to go for power they would have kept the automatic transmission or better yet put in a DCT, but that’s not what the civic is marketed for. It’s marketed for being the Normal consumer car to be able to get to point A to point B on 30+ mpg, which sucks... but if any of us want true power we’re better off getting a 6 speed MT

 

[Jes_si562]

use vavoline cvt oil, i used it and i like it. Works well when i floor it pulls like a stick car.

 

[magshell]

[QUOTE = "magshell, post: 813113, member: 32799"]

[/ QUOTE]

what video is this image taken from? Can I link to youtube?

Sure. It is this one:

 

[Myx]

It’s marketed for being the Normal consumer car to be able to get to point A to point B on 30+ mpg, which sucks... but if any of us want true power we’re better off getting a 6 speed MT

It's absolutely fantastic at the efficiency of the power it is capable of using though. I LOVE the CVT. You don't need to have a lot of power to make your car kick arse. It's a racer's dream as far as I'm concerned.

Just think that horsepower wise, it can handle up to 290 horsepower from the dyno plots you see. Punch in 290hp at 6100rpm at this horsepowr/torque calculator --> HERE That's right where it needs to be. FWD cars on street tires usually just roast tires from 300hp up. They can't get the traction needed for acceleration. Just look at the Type R for instance. **BTW, 290hp @ 6100rpm just happens to be 250lb-ft of torque. **

With that power available to CVT owners, you can utilize that power better than a manual or automatic transmission from a power/acceleration standpoint because you can make the CVT operate at max hp the whole time while you accelerate. Not just a second or two in each gear like the manual or automatic. This is the perfect storm. And while not racing or passing another vehicle, you get the best efficiency from your transmission by how it goes through it's 'infinite' gear ratios.

This is why I love this car. Hardly putting any big power to it but it kicks arse from a stop, point a to b. I'm telling you that if a Type R had a CVT designed for it, performance braking/suspension/wheels and tires, it would beat the current Type R in performance. It would be able to stay at peak power through the whole course. Just like the F1 CVT race car that was banned before its first race.

 

[Myx]

The scorching on Hondata's test made it seem that friction between the belt and pulley gave out before the belt.

Engineering Explained discussing how Nissan's "CVT Traction Oil" helps transfer torque through a lubricant made me hopeful that such a technology would help the belt in our CVT transfer power without slipping and scorching like the Hondata case.

Thoughts?

Did you ever get an answer to you original question in this thread? I have been convinced that you are correct in thinking belt slippage *first*, then heat and eventually breakage, is what causes the CVT transmission to fail. I too am looking for a CVT fluid with better friction modifier(s) than stock.

I personally have ordered some Castrol - 15B652 CVT fluid and plan on using it because I like what I had previously read about it's ability to increase friction. However, I am still researching this department for anything better than stock. Thanks in advance!

 

[varge]

Why are people so obsessed with high mid range torque numbers, I even limit my torque to 250lbft on my 6MT to avoid excessive wheel spin. As @Myx wrote, the ability to constantly run around max hp really renders the midrange torque figure obsolete. Even when running at 3000rpm, the final gear ratio will adjust to accelerate at the optimum rate, so it will put out more torque on the wheels, regardless of the engine torque output.
Focus and request on the flatest torque curve possible, and 6MT users try to extend your powerband for as long as you can. That makes a fast car, not peak numbers.

 

[magshell]

Did you ever get an answer to you original question in this thread? I have been convinced that you are correct in thinking belt slippage *first*, then heat and eventually breakage, is what causes the CVT transmission to fail. I too am looking for a CVT fluid with better friction modifier(s) than stock.

I personally have ordered some Castrol - 15B652 CVT fluid and plan on using it because I like what I had previously read about it's ability to increase friction. However, I am still researching this department for anything better than stock. Thanks in advance!

I have not.

I am thinking of doing the Accord CVT cooler first- if the fluid doesn't get hot and thin out then higher torque may be possible...

What sucks is that I think the only way to test these CVT solutions is expensive (aka after it breaks)

 

[NeoDragons]

I have not.

I am thinking of doing the Accord CVT cooler first- if the fluid doesn't get hot and thin out then higher torque may be possible...

What sucks is that I think the only way to test these CVT solutions is expensive (aka after it breaks)

you should look into the europeon 10thgen civic, they come with factory transmission coolers

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