Amplifying stock speakers

[2020Blues!]

I have a 2020 Si sedan completely stock that I'd love to get sounding better and louder. My question is will it help at all to just amp the stock speakers or is a speaker upgrade in my future?

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[Alphaskoom]

the speakers are already amp'd. 300 watts or something if im not mistaken ( not an expert on the Si ) but the speakers themselves are relatively trash compared to aftermarket offerings. Id consider sound deadening if you want the factory speakers to sound better, there is a few aftermarket low depth open air subs you can use to replace the OEM one for more bass, but id do your own custom setup. the good thing with sound deadening though is it will improve your sound clarity of what you already have with the added benefit of quieting up your cabin, at the cost of however much you pay plus the slight extra weight of the material. - im currently in the process of adding Dynamat and the thin layer of Dynaliner in my door panels, trunk, and rear deck and console area. already noticing a slight improvement on the console.

Edit : you already have an amp in your passenger footwell area for future reference on the outside wall area

 

[Phy]

IDK about the door speakers, but I have an amp wired to the factory sub and it gives me plenty of bass. It's not going to rattle windows or impress the kids, but it's far better than the non existent bass from the factory amp.

 

[JT Si]

The stock amp provides around 25-30WPC RMS at 1% THD, and the 45WPC rating is at 10% THD. It's adequate for the speakers but lacking for the sub.

The real issue with the factory amplification in the Si/upgraded stereo is the factory amp applies DSP to every channel, so even if you install your own amp that accept the line in from the factory amp, it won't sound right.

In order to get a really meaningfully better sound you have to remove or correct the DSP with something like a LC-2i for the sub or an LC-8i for all the channels. Or get an Axxess factory amp replacement box which will give you unmolested pre-outs along with an amp bypass harness to let you wire your own amps directly into the factory wiring.

Both of these are more expensive and a pain in the ass, so I found the easiest way to get an upgrade was just to toss in new speakers all around. Even dropping an aftermarket sub into the rear deck on the factory amp is an improvement over the factory sub.

My setup does sound really a lot better than the factory speakers, but it still is held back from sounding fantastic by the lack of power for the sub and the factory DSP.

 

[kostas]

Just throw away the Oem speakers. They are like toys!

Just see the comparison. Left the OEM, right a focal I installed.
Of course I aftermarket amped them!

 

[CopperPeacock]

In order to get a really meaningfully better sound you have to remove or correct the DSP with something like a LC-2i for the sub or an LC-8i for all the channels. Or get an Axxess factory amp replacement box which will give you unmolested pre-outs along with an amp bypass harness to let you wire your own amps directly into the factory wiring.

Not to mention you cant buy the Axxess parts right now.

I called Metra about it, being in the industry I figured they be able to gimme the hook up.

They said they've gotten 1 to ship this year, all year, and they shipped it to a guy in Cali that ordered it in January....

They don't have any and whoever is actually doing the tooling for them isn't making them FWIW.

I'm VERY upset about it.

 

[shoegazer]

I don't believe you'll notice much difference by just changing the speakers. However; you'll begin to really notice the stock speaker's limitations once you get the signal properly amplified.

 

[Conika]

Take a look at my post about this exact issue.


TLDR

Replace all your speakers except the tweeters and the sub for a major increase in sound quality the stock amp is more than enough to power aftermarket speakers.
You can replace the Sub and add a Mono amp for incredible sound.

 

[Conika]

I don't believe you'll notice much difference by just changing the speakers. However; you'll begin to really notice the stock speaker's limitations once you get the signal properly amplified.

The stock speakers except the tweeters are straight up trash. See picture above comparing the magnets of stock vs after market. lol

 

[CopperPeacock]

The stock speakers except the tweeters are straight up trash. See picture above comparing the magnets of stock vs after market. lol

This is a good time to point out that while it IS true in this exact situation, this comparison may not always be the case.

Some speaker OEMs will use neo magnets to minimize space requirements while while keeping the same motor force whereas aftermarket speakers overwhelmingly will use larger ferrite magnets because they're cheaper and easier to get. (also the consumer often thinks weight=quality)

Some space saving aftermarket speakers will use neo mags as well as big F U competition subs that need massive amounts of motor force since neo magnets are orders of magnitude stronger than ferrite magnets.

The weak link in ours, and by extension most, OEM speakers are the weak suspensions and cheap cone materials leading to the speaker being susceptible to distortion very easily even on stock power which is why the midbass sounds like wet cardboard.

So. That's a thing you know now.

 

[JT Si]

The stock speakers except the tweeters are straight up trash. See picture above comparing the magnets of stock vs after market. lol

I found the factory tweeters shrill and harsh, even with multiple attempts to tune the sound. Some Alpine 1" silk domes sound far, far smoother and more listenable. Overall replacing all the speakers I can listen to music much more loudly without fatigue or harshness and no audible signs of amp clipping, even on the subwoofer upgrade.

You absolutely can improve the sound quite a lot with just speakers. It just won't ever sound fantastic even if you use your own amps unless you fix the DSP problem.

 

[kostas]

Maybe, just maybe, the OEM speakers have neo magnets. Even though, I find then quite small!
Moreover, the speakers are plastic! PLASTIC! I stop here.

 

[2020Blues!]

Thanks everyone for the responses. This has definitely given me a good direction to go in. I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to car audio but I'd really like a better stereo as it's the only complaint I have with the car. Conika, that's a great write up you have about your speaker choices. And not to sound dumb here but what is DSP and why do our cars have it?

 

[Alphaskoom]

Basically its an equilizer that honda put onto our systems that the default equalizer you can adjust, doesn't effect it. What you end up having to do is to force it to make it flat before it goes to your aftermarket amp so you can fine tune it there where its far more effective and controllable.

 

[JT Si]

Thanks everyone for the responses. This has definitely given me a good direction to go in. I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to car audio but I'd really like a better stereo as it's the only complaint I have with the car. Conika, that's a great write up you have about your speaker choices. And not to sound dumb here but what is DSP and why do our cars have it?

DSP is Digital Signal Processing - Essentially Honda has an algorithm that changes the frequency response and equalization on every speaker in the car.

This accomplishes multiple things:

1. It functions as the crossover, so it cuts off low frequencies from the tweeters and high frequencies from the woofers, etc.
2. It is adaptive - It will change the bass response as you crank up the stereo to protect the cheap OEM speakers from blowing (works somewhat, but you can still blow them if you try).
3. It is tuned to attempt to make the cheap OEM speakers sound better than they really are.
4. It is tuned to attempt to make the stereo as a whole sound better in the specific car/speaker position/layout.

Whether they really accomplished 3 and 4 is up for debate - Often times they just create one DSP profile and ship it on all the cars with that stereo configuration despite major differences in speaker position, cabin volume, etc. between say the coupe and the sedan.

This manipulation of the signal being sent to the speakers is a major setback in upgrading the stereo - even if you install better speakers, they are sent the DSP signal. Even if you install your own amp and use line level inputs, you're just re-amplifying the DSP signal.

You can use something like an LC8i to "correct" the sound with great results, or you can get an Axxess audio interface that fully replaces the factory amp (where the DSP is done). The downside to them both is added cost and system complexity.

Individual downsides are the LC8i can't completely fix the signal because it's adaptive, but it can come close.

The Axxess interface, due to having to replace the factory amp, means you have to install amplifiers for every channel in the car (massive pain in the ass to try and amplify 10 channels). You can reduce this a lot by running component woofer/tweeter sets on the front and rear and having them combined on one channel (reducing from 10 to 6 channels).

In my case, I'm not convinced I want to go down either route, so I settled on the cheapest, least complex, and easiest thing to do which was just swap all the speakers out. The sound is good enough I don't really think I'll ever get the itch to go all the way with either solution I've outlined.

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