aggressive Dual 21 Ktuner without forced knock control rise

leeti1284

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coming from TSP stage 1 tune for a while, I thought I would give the "Elimination of forced knock control rise" a go
I put all the quick adjustment into aggressive settings and loaded the basemap tune and went for a drive tonight. My car is CVT + mishimoto intake + mishimotor intercooler
Here is my thought

I really dont think Ktuner basemap is slower than TSP 1 from 0-100km. Yes power delivery is different - Ktuner basemap definitely has the low end kick. TSP 1 is like vtec screaming top, but you wait for it.

however with the elimination of forced knock control - the basemap is definitely a step up now.
1 word - Consistency!
Power is the same, pulls after pulls and the basemap feels pretty damn fast as well. The driving enjoyment can not be underestimated just by this simple change.

How many times do you see knock control rise to over 0.6 after a single WOT pull then you gotta "baby the car" for a while so knock control comes down to 0.49 again? I didn't realise how much driving enjoyment has been lost until now.

I think I will keep the basemap for now.
I really hope TSP can enable this option as well.
Please share your thoughts.





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gtman

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I think many of us will be going back to the base maps. This IMO is the most functionally important non-Si feature of all, by far. There's nothing more frustrating than using high quality 93, seeing .49 and one pull above 5300 causes a .20 jump in knock control. I know the aftermarket (TSP, Phearable) tunes compensate with timing, but it's not the same.

I'll be loading mine once the weather clears up. I'm looking forward to this feature and getting my low end fun back.
 
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kytos

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How's you knock control doing after a few pulls?
 

kytos

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I think many of us will be going back to the basemaps
I'll wait until Derek figure out an improved TSP Stage1+ for the non-si.
 

Beansley

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Can anyone explain to me in layman's terms what this means and what it does for me? I really haven't fiddled with settings that much other than just monitoring fuel trims, etc. Does this put more risk on the engine? @gtman
 

hobby-man

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Can anyone explain to me in layman's terms what this means and what it does for me? I really haven't fiddled with settings that much other than just monitoring fuel trims, etc. Does this put more risk on the engine? @gtman
On a standard non-Si ECU, knock control will always go up once you pass about 5200 RPM, regardless of whether knock activity is actually picked up by the sensor or not. It's there as a safety feature. This feature removes the artificial knock increase. If you have good fuel, it shouldn't rise up just because your RPM is over a threshold. If it does, then your sensor is seeing "real" knock and not "artificial" knock, meaning your tune is too aggressive for your fuel. Add a splash of E85 to your 91 octane for example, and you should see steady knock control again.

It's not inherently dangerous to disable this, you just need to realize that any increase in knock control is now "real" and needs to be considered.
 

gtman

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Can anyone explain to me in layman's terms what this means and what it does for me? I really haven't fiddled with settings that much other than just monitoring fuel trims, etc. Does this put more risk on the engine? @gtman
Beansley, hobby-man did a great job explaining things but let me take it in a slightly different direction.

I think Honda uses this artificial knock control to keep those using sub-par quality 87 safe in stock vehicles. From that point of view it makes sense. But for someone tuned using high quality premium gas, it's a nuisance and robs us of power by reducing timing.

With this new feature enabled, you get your money's worth out of that premium gas. No more k.c. shooting up past 5250 rpm for no reason.

And in a way, I look at this artificial knock removal as a safety feature. Now, if you see a big rise in knock control, it's legit and you need to take measures to fix the problem by either adjusting the tune or using higher octane gas.

Of course this means you really should monitor knock control regularly.
 
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Beansley

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Beansley, hobby-man did a great job explaining things but let me take it in a slightly different direction.

I think Honda uses this artificial knock control to keep those using sub-par quality 87 safe in stock vehicles. From that point of view it makes sense. But for someone tuned using high quality premium gas, it's a nuisance and robs us of power by reducing timing.

With this new feature enabled, you get your money's worth out of that premium gas. No more k.c. shooting up past 5250 rpm for no reason.

And in a way, I look at this artificial knock removal as a safety feature. Now, if you see a big rise in knock control, it's legit and you need to take measures to fix the problem by either adjusting the tune or using higher octane gas.

Cool, thanks guys! I only use Costco 93 which is supposedly good stuff so I'll keep my fingers crossed and keep an eye out.
 

Benster

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is this in an updated tune that I need to get from ktuner? IE emailing them so they send me an update to my unit?
 

Beansley

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is this in an updated tune that I need to get from ktuner? IE emailing them so they send me an update to my unit?
You should be prompted* to download the newest version of Ktuner as well as your actual Ktuner unit when you plug it in.

*edited from promoted because my phone makes me look like an idiot on the daily.
 
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Benster

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This is so much better now with the disable omg!!!! I put a tune in with the kcontrol ramp disable and went for a ride and it feels so good to be able to rev to 6k without going to .6+. It only goes to .51 or .52 when I get close to 6500 but I did a number of pulls to 6k and it stays at .49 or .50. also took the liberty of increasing the boost ramps since my clutch has been broken in for a while. Man it feels good to get quick boost again. That's on 91 octane btw.
 

gtman

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This is so much better now with the disable omg!!!! I put a tune in with the kcontrol ramp disable and went for a ride and it feels so good to be able to rev to 6k without going to .6+. It only goes to .51 or .52 when I get close to 6500 but I did a number of pulls to 6k and it stays at .49 or .50. also took the liberty of increasing the boost ramps since my clutch has been broken in for a while. Man it feels good to get quick boost again. That's on 91 octane btw.
When I saw Hondata came out with this feature, I knew it was by far the best and most important non-Si tune update EVER. So happy KTuner added this so quickly as well.

As much as I like the canned tunes from Phearable and TSP, I plan on going back to a KTuner Starter tune this spring just to get consistent high rpm power back. Plus it's a win win because KTuner's maps are livelier down low too.

I absolutely 100% HATE seeing .6-.7 on 93 octane after one pull. It's such a buzzkill and honestly this fake k.c. rise should have been removed years ago IMO. All us non-Si guys have suffered long enough. lol

I also have the strong feeling many more people will switch back to the base KTuner (and Hondata) tunes since the current aftermarket tunes don't offer this feature.
 
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leeti1284

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This change has really the basemap feels pretty damn fast too. It really is Fast and Consistent
 

gtman

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This change has really the basemap feels pretty damn fast too. It really is Fast and Consistent
No doubt. Can't wait to try it. I'm jealous you're already using it. Too much ice and snow here to switch yet. :(
 

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