A quick question about the auto-rev match function in FK8 (MY19)

ken_414

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Hello everyone.

Just have a quick question about the auto-rev match function. I noticed that auto-rev match doesn't kick in when the RPM drops below 2000 in either comfort or sport mode unless I am downshifting two gears say from 4th to 2nd. It has happened a few times when the car failed to auto-rev match when changing down from 3rd to 2nd, which I didn't notice, at about 40km/h and the car jerked quite extensively (almost felt like something bumped into each other harshly but didn't hear any noise). Since that has happened a few times, I now watch the RPM and rev-match myself when auto-rev match fails to engage below 2000 revs but I was wondering what potential damages may have caused to the gearbox from that jerk? I bought her brand new and it's my dream car so I want to do everything I can to prolong her life. Genuinely wants to learn. Thanks guys :)?
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tinyman392

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Hello everyone.

Just have a quick question about the auto-rev match function. I noticed that auto-rev match doesn't kick in when the RPM drops below 2000 in either comfort or sport mode unless I am downshifting two gears say from 4th to 2nd. It has happened a few times when the car failed to auto-rev match when changing down from 3rd to 2nd, which I didn't notice, at about 40km/h and the car jerked quite extensively (almost felt like something bumped into each other harshly but didn't hear any noise). Since that has happened a few times, I now watch the RPM and rev-match myself when auto-rev match fails to engage below 2000 revs but I was wondering what potential damages may have caused to the gearbox from that jerk? I bought her brand new and it's my dream car so I want to do everything I can to prolong her life. Genuinely wants to learn. Thanks guys :)?
The jerk is a mix of the engine's difference in RPM to the transmissions roughly transmitting through the transmission and motor. This is actually going to be bad both directions and also may wear down your synchros quickly. It may be a good idea to learn when the car needs to go down 2 gears instead of 1 and start doing that preemptively. Additionally, if you're RPM is close to 2k (say less than 2200), go down 2 gears instead of 1. Alternatively just drive in +R mode all the time and get the aggressive downshifts all the time :p
 

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Hello everyone.

Just have a quick question about the auto-rev match function. I noticed that auto-rev match doesn't kick in when the RPM drops below 2000 in either comfort or sport mode unless I am downshifting two gears say from 4th to 2nd. It has happened a few times when the car failed to auto-rev match when changing down from 3rd to 2nd, which I didn't notice, at about 40km/h and the car jerked quite extensively (almost felt like something bumped into each other harshly but didn't hear any noise). Since that has happened a few times, I now watch the RPM and rev-match myself when auto-rev match fails to engage below 2000 revs but I was wondering what potential damages may have caused to the gearbox from that jerk? I bought her brand new and it's my dream car so I want to do everything I can to prolong her life. Genuinely wants to learn. Thanks guys :)?
It has never been a issue for me personally, and Type R is my first car to have auto rev match. It quickly became a natural instinct after I got the car. When I slow down below a point, I just blip gas for manual Rev match like part of muscle memory, and I rarely have to check the rev meter. Also, on high speed, you can always hear the auto rev match kick in, then lift the clutch; it's quite obvious, unless you wana bang the gears super quick.

I have been driving the type R for few months now, and never really had any obvious jerks. And be honest, I don't want the car to auto rev at low RPM. Imagine I'm slowing down in a public parking lot and shift from 3rd to 1st. I don't want a sudden Rev up, and everyone around look at me like I'm a immature Teen trying to show off something....

This is also why I always suggest people with no manual, or not much manual driving experience to NOT go straight for a type R, then overly rely on techs like the auto rev match, or just turn those things all off during the first year of driving so you learn the techniques like manual rev match, heel toe, and everything, so you understand manual and appreciate how fun it is in its most native form. I learnt Manual from my past Si, and I still turn off the auto rev constantly just to heel toe myself.
 
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ken_414

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It has never been a issue for me personally, and Type R is my first car to have auto rev match. It quickly became a natural instinct after I got the car. When I slow down below a point, I just blip gas for manual Rev match like part of muscle memory, and I rarely have to check the rev meter. Also, on high speed, you can always hear the auto rev match kick in, then lift the clutch; it's quite obvious, unless you wana bang the gears super quick.

I have been driving the type R for few months now, and never really had any obvious jerks. And be honest, I don't want the car to auto rev at low RPM. Imagine I'm slowing down in a public parking lot and shift from 3rd to 1st. I don't want a sudden Rev up, and everyone around look at me like I'm a immature Teen trying to show off something....

This is also why I always suggest people with no manual, or not much manual driving experience to NOT go straight for a type R, then overly rely on techs like the auto rev match, or just turn those things all off during the first year of driving so you learn the techniques like manual rev match, heel toe, and everything, so you understand manual and appreciate how fun it is in its most native form. I learnt Manual from my past Si, and I still turn off the auto rev constantly just to heel toe myself.
I never put it back into first gear when approaching to a complete stop it's never a good idea to do so unless the traffic ahead is about to move again when your coming to a stop. It does take some time to get used to the rev-matching system in sport mode because I was not told that auto-rev match doesn't kick in in certain circumstances. In +R mode, whatever speed and rev you are at, it does it straight away. Agree that type R may not be the best car to practice rev-matching but with a little bit of practice it is not hard to do so and at least I know how to do it now when I need to. I am trying to get another manual car just so I can master heel and toe. I dun find doing heel-toe in my daily drive very practical especially when I use the car daily to go to work, it can be tiring especially during the traffic jams. I personally prefer using the auto rev-match on my daily drive and turn it off when doing my weekend drive.
 


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+R, sport and comfort all have different thresholds for when rev match will activate.
By all accounts in the service manual it's about the same? Just changes the speed of match (That being said, I don't tend to use it much - Opt for manual H&T)

Honda Civic 10th gen A quick question about the auto-rev match function in FK8 (MY19) 1610508190259

(Extract from PGM-FI Section of manual)
 

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By all accounts in the service manual it's about the same? Just changes the speed of match (That being said, I don't tend to use it much - Opt for manual H&T)

1610508190259.png

(Extract from PGM-FI Section of manual)
Interesting, I had remembered differently.
 

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By all accounts in the service manual it's about the same? Just changes the speed of match (That being said, I don't tend to use it much - Opt for manual H&T)

1610508190259.png

(Extract from PGM-FI Section of manual)
+R is actually an exception to the rule as it actually does rev match every sequential shift with the exception of going into 1st. If you're below 2000 RPM it'll do it a little less aggressive, but it'll still do it for a sequential shift. If you aren't in +R, you have to shift down 2 or more gears for the very slow rev match to kick in. You can test this yourself pretty easily. I'm pretty sure my manual talked about this as well, but I could be mistaken since it's been years since I read it.

Comfort and Sport both have the same thresholds, +R actually does differ.
 

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I never put it back into first gear when approaching to a complete stop it's never a good idea to do so unless the traffic ahead is about to move again when your coming to a stop. It does take some time to get used to the rev-matching system in sport mode because I was not told that auto-rev match doesn't kick in in certain circumstances. In +R mode, whatever speed and rev you are at, it does it straight away. Agree that type R may not be the best car to practice rev-matching but with a little bit of practice it is not hard to do so and at least I know how to do it now when I need to. I am trying to get another manual car just so I can master heel and toe. I dun find doing heel-toe in my daily drive very practical especially when I use the car daily to go to work, it can be tiring especially during the traffic jams. I personally prefer using the auto rev-match on my daily drive and turn it off when doing my weekend drive.
Aren't you suppose to shift to first when you are certain of a complete stop?? Or you just miss typed? Anyways, Auto rev Does Not kick in at low RPM for most cars actually.

I didn't like the Auto rev match feature at first, but I do see the benefits now. As long as it's an option, I have no issue. I witch it on and off depends on my mood that day.

Now, that being said, I know a guy who complained the same thing about the auto rev match, saying it doesn't always rev, and it jerks when it doesn't. The issue with him is Type R is he's first manual car, and he has no idea what rev match is, and how to do it manually, let alone heel toe. I told him in older pure manuals auto rev didn't exist, and we all had to rev match ourselves, he should be grateful with all the techs helping him to drive. But i also told him, it might be a good idea to turn the feature off for at least half a year to just learn and understand how things work. I learned rev match the hard way, sometimes in pretty bad traffic, but it made me a better driver in the long run. Heel toe is fun when you get the hang of it, and if one day the auto rev complete fails on the road, at least you doesn't panic and burn your clutch.
 

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Aren't you suppose to shift to first when you are certain of a complete stop?? Or you just miss typed? Anyways, Auto rev Does Not kick in at low RPM for most cars actually.
If you're certain of a stop, you go into neutral. If you downshift/engine brake on your way to a stop, you shouldn't enter 1st gear again, everything up to 2nd is generally done though. You'll rarely want to rev match and shift into 1st, it can be done, and if you rev match properly minimal damage would be done.

I didn't like the Auto rev match feature at first, but I do see the benefits now. As long as it's an option, I have no issue. I witch it on and off depends on my mood that day.
If you rev match yourself, your command override's the cars anyways. So if you blip the throttle yourself in a more aggressive manner, it'll use your rev match over its own. The only exception to this is if you don't give it enough gas, then it may blip the throttle a second time for you. It will also hold revs for you as you rev match.
 
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SiR

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If you're certain of a stop, you go into neutral. If you downshift/engine brake on your way to a stop, you shouldn't enter 1st gear again, everything up to 2nd is generally done though. You'll rarely want to rev match and shift into 1st, it can be done, and if you rev match properly minimal damage would be done.



If you rev match yourself, your command override's the cars anyways. So if you blip the throttle yourself in a more aggressive manner, it'll use your rev match over its own. The only exception to this is if you don't give it enough gas, then it may blip the throttle a second time for you. It will also hold revs for you as you rev match.
If there's a traffic light, I clutch in and shift to neutral first. Depends on the situation, I may shift to 1st for full stop, while foot pressed on clutch, wait for green and clutch out and go. Or, the light turn green before full stop, Then I go to 2nd from neutral, blip gas and clutch out and go. Of course, I may leave it in neutral if I want to rest my left leg for the traffic light. The clutches nowadays are light, so mostly I just keep it pressed while waiting for green.

Yes, sometimes I misjudge the rpm threshold, the rev match kick in and I blip gas on top of it. In those cases I find myself over rev a bit. But it's better than jerking the car.
 
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If there's a traffic light, I clutch in and shift to neutral first. Depends on the situation, I may shift to 1st for full stop, while foot pressed on clutch, wait for green and clutch out and go. Or, the light turn green before full stop, Then I go to 2nd from neutral, blip gas and clutch out and go. Of course, I may leave it in neutral if I want to rest my left leg for the traffic light. The clutches nowadays are light, so mostly I just keep it pressed while waiting for green.
That's a perfect example of how people wear out their clutch quickly.
 
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ken_414

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Aren't you suppose to shift to first when you are certain of a complete stop?? Or you just miss typed?
I would never do that lol If you know you are coming to a complete stop, what's the point for putting it into first gear at the stop light causing all the premature wears and tears? I would only do it if I want a brand new gear box and have plenty of money to spare lol

The issue with him is Type R is he's first manual car, and he has no idea what rev match is, and how to do it manually, let alone heel toe. I told him in older pure manuals auto rev didn't exist, and we all had to rev match ourselves, he should be grateful with all the techs helping him to drive.
Well I guess your assuming I am like your friend. Just because I like using auto rev match with my daily ride doesn't mean I don't know how to rev match myself. I was trying to find out if I don't notice it when auto rev match doesn't kick in and accidentally let out the clutch, what potentially damages may have done to the gear box. I am confused because auto rev match kicks in whatever you do in +R mode.

Yes, sometimes I misjudge the rpm threshold, the rev match kick in and I blip gas on top of it. In those cases I find myself over rev a bit. But it's better than jerking the car.
Well to me that just another kind of mistake, it doesn't make it sound any better to the gear box I am afraid. Also, if you are that confident with your rev-matching technique, maybe you should just turn off auto rev match instead.
 
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If there's a traffic light, I clutch in and shift to neutral first. Depends on the situation, I may shift to 1st for full stop, while foot pressed on clutch, wait for green and clutch out and go.
...
The clutches nowadays are light, so mostly I just keep it pressed while waiting for green.
This is how you wear down your clutch diaphragm spring, not going to lie. Especially the latter sentence... You really shouldn’t hold in the clutch at a traffic light. Just because the clutch feels light doesn’t mean that the clutch diaphragm spring isn’t losing its stiffness or you can ignore the fact that it will be more robust.

Or, the light turn green before full stop, Then I go to 2nd from neutral, blip gas and clutch out and go. Of course, I may leave it in neutral if I want to rest my left leg for the traffic light.
This isn’t nearly as bad, but to be honest, ideally you‘d want to time it so you’re back in gear as the light turns green. If you have to hold in the clutch to do this, then just stay in neutral. If I think the light will turn green, I’ll just coast in 2nd (fully engaged) until it turns green. If I’m going to slow to do that, then I get out of gear until the light turns green, then it is a rev match into 1st (if I’m lower than 7-8 MPH).

Yes, sometimes I misjudge the rpm threshold, the rev match kick in and I blip gas on top of it. In those cases I find myself over rev a bit. But it's better than jerking the car.
Depends on how much the over-rev is. Say you were right below 40 MPH in 5th gear (right around the 2k mark) and rev match didn’t kick in, then you’d need to raise your revs from like 1900 -> 2500 (600 RPM difference) in a dramatic way (the jerk). Say you over-revved the motor by either blipping too strongly or blipping twice by accident to anything over 3100 RPM, you’d need to lower the revs from 3100+ -> 2500 RPM (600+ RPM difference) in a dramatic way; realistically it would cause similar damage in the long run. If you instead brought it to something like 2800 or 2200 then you’re right, it is better to jerk the car less than to jerk the car more.
 

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This is how you wear down your clutch diaphragm spring, not going to lie. Especially the latter sentence... You really shouldn’t hold in the clutch at a traffic light. Just because the clutch feels light doesn’t mean that the clutch diaphragm spring isn’t losing its stiffness or you can ignore the fact that it will be more robust.



This isn’t nearly as bad, but to be honest, ideally you‘d want to time it so you’re back in gear as the light turns green. If you have to hold in the clutch to do this, then just stay in neutral. If I think the light will turn green, I’ll just coast in 2nd (fully engaged) until it turns green. If I’m going to slow to do that, then I get out of gear until the light turns green, then it is a rev match into 1st (if I’m lower than 7-8 MPH).



Depends on how much the over-rev is. Say you were right below 40 MPH in 5th gear (right around the 2k mark) and rev match didn’t kick in, then you’d need to raise your revs from like 1900 -> 2500 (600 RPM difference) in a dramatic way (the jerk). Say you over-revved the motor by either blipping too strongly or blipping twice by accident to anything over 3100 RPM, you’d need to lower the revs from 3100+ -> 2500 RPM (600+ RPM difference) in a dramatic way; realistically it would cause similar damage in the long run. If you instead brought it to something like 2800 or 2200 then you’re right, it is better to jerk the car less than to jerk the car more.
When I learnt on my first Si, I used to go Neutral while at traffic light, rest my foot, and back to 1st when it turns green. Habits changed as the years went by and whichever way I find easier to drive. Coast in 2nd, we are talking about the same thing.

As for the wearing clutch diaphragm spring, I knew that all the time. I drove my previous 10th gen Si with clutch constantly pressed during traffic light (It was just so light it didn't feel anything). I knew the cost of replacing it is about $800 where I live, and compare to everything else like property tax, and Insurance, it really didn't matter much. I just said hell with it, I just drive however I find convenient in bumper to bumper traffic, and if $800 can make my daily so much easier, I take it. Then I drove like that for 2 years without clutch issue.... Maybe it's because I try to pick highways whenever I can to avoid traffic. And depends on the situation, I may still go to neutral if it just turned red.

your post did serve as a reminder I might be influencing people with bad driving habit, and not everyone is ok with $800 every year or two to replace the clutch. I will try to keep it to myself.
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