A note to the tuning "haters"

Civics4Ever

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My simple base tune and cai beat an Infinity M37x from a 40 roll by 1.5 car lengths.
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Old F@rt

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Before you go encouraging people to tune, you need a disclaimer. Unless you're willing to help them out if something goes wrong - tuning always comes with risks.

- if a car is good from the factory, people won't be turning to tunes unless they really wanted to

I'll admit I quit reading your rant after these statements
1: @gtman isn't forcing anyone to tune their car last time I checked. He just askes that if the owner MAKES THE DECISION TO TUNE ( You apparently missed that part before pointing fingers) that they add info to the tune thread

2: Car guys have been modding/ tuning since the first cars rolled off the production lines. Doesn't matter if it's a Civic or a track ready C7 Corvette...I own both so feel free to ask me if I think 460 factory hp is enough? Like you stated, people tune because they want to...no one is forcing anyone to do it.
 
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gtman

gtman

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Plus, if you read my tuning thread or just general tuning posts, I always talk about the risk/reward of tuning. My thread is intended to help people make an educated choice to tune or not tune. Do I think tuning transforms our cars? Absolutely. But it's up to the owner to decide what's right for them.
 

Old F@rt

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Plus, if you read my tuning thread or just general tuning posts, I always talk about the risk/reward of tuning. My thread is intended to help people make an educated choice to tune or not tune. Do I think tuning transforms our cars? Absolutely. But it's up to the owner to decide what's right for them.
You have zero need to defend yourself. You've provided so many owners with so much info over the years. When someone makes BS claims against you, I'd like to think "We have your six"...I know I do. Regards.
 

GrDeleto

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Yes most Civics do benefit greatly from a tune - but here's a thought - if a car is good from the factory, people won't be turning to tunes unless they really wanted to push things. Honda's lost it - they're just a bad choice for enthusiasts save a halo or two that they just do to stay relevant.

I've not had to tune my cars since mine blew - that says something about buying cars that aren't pathetic from the factory. Torn off my old Honda fanboy badge and realized there's plenty of great options out there. And I can easily safely tune for 400hp even now, since my motor isn't a pathetic 1.5l economy engine.
Also just realized this post has a contradiction. Saying that a car good from the factory it wouldn't need a tune. Yet here it is, tuning the GTI/GLI. That makes no sense. Plus When i went into the forum for the gli/gti. 228 wasn't enough, they wanted more. Germans have been ahead of japan when it comes to tuning for a long time now. This is not new.
 


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Germans have been ahead of japan when it comes to tuning for a long time now. This is not new.
??? what do you mean, because theres been tuning in japan for a long time, ahead of germany.
 

GrDeleto

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How nu
??? what do you mean, because theres been tuning in japan for a long time, ahead of germany.
An apr+ tune can get you to 300 with just a tune. Or the Supra getting 500 with a downpipe and tune. German engines ate known for that.
 
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gtman

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An apr+ tune can get you to 300 with just a tune. Or the Supra getting 500 with a downpipe and tune. German engines ate known for that.
Not at all relevant. We're tuning a tiny economy engine here. I'm actually amazed at how much power tuners can get out of that little eco engine of ours.

If you want massive sports car power, you bought the wrong platform.
 

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How nu

An apr+ tune can get you to 300 with just a tune. Or the Supra getting 500 with a downpipe and tune. German engines ate known for that.
And a CTR can get to 400. I mean, they have good engines, just your comparison is nonsense.
 

SethNES

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Before you go encouraging people to tune, you need a disclaimer. Unless you're willing to help them out if something goes wrong - tuning always comes with risks. And yes its stupid to tune a cheap ass economy engine that Honda decided to put into most CIvics - I suspect the 2.0l NA guys are safer tuning than that stupid weak 1.5l that came from the likes of the Fit and Jazz ie. the bottom tier economy engine.

Yes most Civics do benefit greatly from a tune - but here's a thought - if a car is good from the factory, people won't be turning to tunes unless they really wanted to push things. Honda's lost it - they're just a bad choice for enthusiasts save a halo or two that they just do to stay relevant.

I've not had to tune my cars since mine blew - that says something about buying cars that aren't pathetic from the factory. Torn off my old Honda fanboy badge and realized there's plenty of great options out there. And I can easily safely tune for 400hp even now, since my motor isn't a pathetic 1.5l economy engine.

If someone else is seeing this - I'm here to tell you that you're better off selling your overrated Honda if you have a 1.5l model, trading it in for something proper if you actually want performance. Don't waste time and money on mods and tuning - its a bad platform unless you go full engine swap, so really - just sell it and dealers will still give you good money for it.

If I was honest to myself - I should have realized that Honda died for enthusiasts after the early 2000s... always regretted not waiting for an RSX-S back then, had an automatic 2002 that I enjoyed for 4 years until I crashed it one day. My 2012 Si should have told me that - that rev hang was beyond stupidity, it just couldn't recapture any of the fun memories of the RSX, and mods just made it merely ok. That 2017 HB Sport was another shot of recapturing the RSX magic, but nope - it just lit my world on fire - in a literally not good way. I don't entirely blame the tune though - its really the Honda Sensing being overly sensitive that led to the crazy scene that followed, collision mitigation activated hard when I was in the left lane unexpectedly forcing me to step on the gas after that to get back up to speed. Didn't even occur to me until a few weeks later than it could have been the engine - all I knew was something broke, loss all power but not electronics... even thought the brake lines might have blew out given the force of braking. Coasted to a stop and next thing I see is fire in the engine bay as I was looking at the wheel wells. The rest is history, crispy fried Civic which probably is a lucky outcome since insurance covered it but still lost given mileage accumulated.

Test drove a Mk7 GTI and thought it was too much of a hooligan, so I went with a Mk7 Jetta with a 1.4 turbo to replace the Civic which was a new model back then. That simple Jetta was eye opening, loved every bit of it, drove it for 4 years. And all the features actually work unlike the spastic auto sensing wipers on the Civic, having proper blind spot monitors, etc. Took advantage of great used prices and got into a GLI last summer. In the past 5 years I've had collision braking activate maybe 1-2 times in VW, vs. what was a weekly or more in that Civic death trap. And wipers actually work like they're supposed too. Never had any inclination of tuning either Jetta but the GLI is easily tuned to crazy hp if I wanted to.

Getting a proper weekend toy soon, its not Japanese either. Just sharing my story - but there's more than Honda or Japanese cars. Honda IMO used to make great cars - but not anymore other than a halo or two to try to provide an illusion. I was actually going to trade in my Si for a CR-V in 2017 but that disappointed so much in my test drive that I asked to try the Civic HB instead. In hindsight I should have kept my 2012 Si, just got tired after a year commuting in traffic after a job change. I had a 2011 CR-V leased for a while, that you wouldn't think is much to talk about but its hydraulic PS and NA engine and torque converter automatic all is a much superior package to the pathetic world of CVTs and 1.5l turbos that makes up the bulk of what Honda sells today.

FWIW - I also had a 2009 Honda Fit before the Si - that car I would say is a death trap and just not made for North American highways. It was so light it couldn't even bite into snowy roads, its a total greenhouse of glass so heats up like mad in the summer if let in the sun. It was worse than typical SUVs with crosswinds blowing. Between the Fit and Civic HB - two worse Honda's ever. And guess what - both share the same base engine, one just adds a turbo.
Well I won't go against anything you said mainly because it's your own experience. However some people on here just don't like how Volkswagens look. To me they look like shit and I don't care if they are faster. I would never buy one based on looks and it's a shit cheating company.
 


racerguy180

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I'm not sure comparing VW to Honda in the reliable tuning conversation is rational....

VW's suck, always have & always will!
 

XOcivic

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Nope, I only joined last year. Sounds hilarious though! I've seen many more of the opposite with Si owners though. Only once with an NA owner acting like that but only on a single occasion.

Once I get my hands on a KTuner kit I'll definitely add my 2.0 to the thread, though!
I will also join the tuned 2.0 thread here soon! I donā€™t want to go balls to the wall and boost an economy engine, but Iā€™d like to atleast get around 200hp which Iā€™d say is reasonable, completely reasonable in fact. Itā€™ll happen eventually, and it may be the stalemate of this engine. However, I feel like there is more to be had, and the only reason 1.5T has more to offer is because, wellā€¦. How do I put thisā€¦. Itā€™s already boosted!

I personally have no idea how one could hate either engines, or why itā€™s a thing at all. Weā€™re all Honda here arenā€™t we?
 

speedyserg

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How nu

An apr+ tune can get you to 300 with just a tune. Or the Supra getting 500 with a downpipe and tune. German engines ate known for that.
My stock block 2L Type R is making 601whp/490wtq on a stock frame turbo.
German cars are shit - 80% of them are leased time bombs - nobody wants them out of warranty. They lease - tune - destroy and return. The second owners always have issues. If you want a good laugh ask a Porsche shop what mods cost šŸ˜† They fleece German car buyers daily.

Making power with boost is easy- for the real challenge try making power naturally aspirated. VW is shit in that department which is why they went to turbo engines decades ago. BMW tried and ended up with motors that grenaded on track with few miles - especially their glass V10s that would oil starve and self destruct. Replacement cost for a new V10 for an M5 was around 32k šŸ˜† Same with their S54 that would spin bearings. Porsche literally had a recall on their engines because their bearings would catastrophically fail. Their blocks in the 90s would develop holes from poor casting methods. Mercedes engines would lose oil pressure and eat cams/valvetrain on their AMG v8s costing owners thousands in repairs or motor replacement.

To make an ignorant statement like - Germans tune better than Japs - you would have to be completely ignorant of the issues among engines of all makes and models.

Every platform has its issues but Honda held the record for most power per liter in the US for years - the only company to best them was Ferrari and not by much lol. A 32k Honda held the record until a 200k+ Ferrari came along and edged it out.

The MK4 Supra held quite a bit of power - never saw a German engine from that Era come close - the new V10 Audi engines are pretty good but still lag behind the 2JZ by some margin.

Metallurgy has come a long way and most engines are fairly stout these days - acting like a 300hp 2L VW is impressive is comical when k20s from 2002 were making 600+whp on factory internals 15+ years ago - back when VW engines were spilling their guts in the 4 to 500whp range. He'll the F20c S2000 engine has held 803whp on factory rotating assembly - never seen a German 2L 4cyl come close.

Japanese oems gained tons of market share because they made reliable high performance machines for a fraction of what the Germans were doing - Porsche almost went bankrupt until VAG bought them out and forced them to sell SUVs with Porsche stickers on them. They now sell more SUVs/Sedans than they do 911s šŸ˜†

Anyway - when it comes to power the Japanese have perfected squeezing the most per cc. Germans never came close - they started using turbos and then the "stage 1 2 3" bullshit was born. Honda finally caved due to global emissions standards and here we are - turbo Type Rs that lap faster than German supercars of yesteryear šŸ˜†
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