4piston camshaft TR2

speedyserg

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Sweet. Haha. I am wondering if i should change motec ecu first before doing a much bigger built motor with tr3 with all the goodies in it.
presume motec will allow 10 to 20 more whp across the range?
With motec you'll be able to run more boost apples to apples - I'm stuck around 32.5 because of the stock ecu for the most part - I've seen motec guys run 35psi pretty easily on the same turbo setups many use (Garrett) so 2.5psi more should yield an easy 20 to 30whp all else being equal.

Tr3s are a bit more of a top end cam so you lose a bit of the snapiness of the tr2 around town. The engine becomes more of a top end race engine feel - softer down low but stronger up top.

On hondata TR3s can be a pit of a pain to dial in - not impossible - just more intensive with proper tune.

This makes the TR2 the easy choice for street setups on hondata - easy to tune and maintains more street friendly response in daily driving/lower engine speeds.

They make a TR4 as well once you go motec lol. I'm sure those would pull harder up top if you're chasing top end.

The fuel pump controls are also faster/better on motec as the processing power is much stronger. Stock ecu sort of fights you whereas the motec does exactly what you want, when you want. For $7k it better 😆

With the recently run 682whp on TR2s with the g30-770 on stock bottom end ......it becomes a matter of goals really. That setup with a built bottom could probably make 720ish maybe 730ish with a little more boost on motec. On tr3s maybe 750ish? Probably switch to a g30-900 for that level.

Basically if a hondta setup could get you to 720whp - would you want to spend the extra 7k for motec to take you higher? That's where John is - made 842whp on a g35-1050 - but - misses his g30-900 at 762whp which he did on hondata (+direct port meth injection)

I've gone over this myself - what are you building - a fun street car or a focused race car. If it's a race car, motec has amazing safeties - if it's street car.....720-750whp on hondata is probably enough .....your call/money
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With motec you'll be able to run more boost apples to apples - I'm stuck around 32.5 because of the stock ecu for the most part - I've seen motec guys run 35psi pretty easily on the same turbo setups many use (Garrett) so 2.5psi more should yield an easy 20 to 30whp all else being equal.

Tr3s are a bit more of a top end cam so you lose a bit of the snapiness of the tr2 around town. The engine becomes more of a top end race engine feel - softer down low but stronger up top.

On hondata TR3s can be a pit of a pain to dial in - not impossible - just more intensive with proper tune.

This makes the TR2 the easy choice for street setups on hondata - easy to tune and maintains more street friendly response in daily driving/lower engine speeds.

They make a TR4 as well once you go motec lol. I'm sure those would pull harder up top if you're chasing top end.

The fuel pump controls are also faster/better on motec as the processing power is much stronger. Stock ecu sort of fights you whereas the motec does exactly what you want, when you want. For $7k it better 😆

With the recently run 682whp on TR2s with the g30-770 on stock bottom end ......it becomes a matter of goals really. That setup with a built bottom could probably make 720ish maybe 730ish with a little more boost on motec. On tr3s maybe 750ish? Probably switch to a g30-900 for that level.

Basically if a hondta setup could get you to 720whp - would you want to spend the extra 7k for motec to take you higher? That's where John is - made 842whp on a g35-1050 - but - misses his g30-900 at 762whp which he did on hondata (+direct port meth injection)

I've gone over this myself - what are you building - a fun street car or a focused race car. If it's a race car, motec has amazing safeties - if it's street car.....720-750whp on hondata is probably enough .....your call/money
Guess you are right. Maybe ill do both. The max boost i saw on my mhi stg 2 turbo was 2.4 bar or 34.8 psi, tuned on hondata. I wonder if this is safe or anything wrong with it? Im tuned on e30 and meth injection. The max boost figure was shown on both my defi gauge and hondata mobile app.
 

speedyserg

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Guess you are right. Maybe ill do both. The max boost i saw on my mhi stg 2 turbo was 2.4 bar or 34.8 psi, tuned on hondata. I wonder if this is safe or anything wrong with it? Im tuned on e30 and meth injection. The max boost figure was shown on both my defi gauge and hondata mobile app.
How much power? I would imagine around 540ish whp or so
 

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How much power? I would imagine around 540ish whp or so
480 on a dynapack dyno.
are you gonna get kelford or 4piston cams? I am thinking of kelford 279-a for myself. Wonder if these are easy to tune with hondata. 😂
 

speedyserg

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480 on a dynapack dyno.
are you gonna get kelford or 4piston cams? I am thinking of kelford 279-a for myself. Wonder if these are easy to tune with hondata. 😂
Most likely the TR2s as they are known to work on Hondata pretty easily- the TR3s are more of a PITA so no need for that on my daily. The ported head already makes cold starts sound funny for the first 30 seconds as the engine comes up to temp 😆

Haven't seen any data on the Kelford cams let alone any tuning issues there may be.

Basically once you add too much cam the VE is so far off the base VE charts in the ECU fight the tune - John did a great video explaining the issues he ran into when he went from TR2s to TR3s on his setup on hondata. He's even made product for guys who want to run TR3s and meth - I'm on ethanol so no desire to go direct port meth.

So far we've seen over 700+whp on TR2s and ethanol on DI only which is where I'd like to be. Do you have any data on the kelfords?
 


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Most likely the TR2s as they are known to work on Hondata pretty easily- the TR3s are more of a PITA so no need for that on my daily. The ported head already makes cold starts sound funny for the first 30 seconds as the engine comes up to temp 😆

Haven't seen any data on the Kelford cams let alone any tuning issues there may be.

Basically once you add too much cam the VE is so far off the base VE charts in the ECU fight the tune - John did a great video explaining the issues he ran into when he went from TR2s to TR3s on his setup on hondata. He's even made product for guys who want to run TR3s and meth - I'm on ethanol so no desire to go direct port meth.

So far we've seen over 700+whp on TR2s and ethanol on DI only which is where I'd like to be. Do you have any data on the kelfords?
no data yet though. I think the stage 1 kelford cam is in between tr2 and tr3, with the kelford needing spring replacements.

Im torn between tr2 and kelford, not sure which to pick up.

im also contemplating porting the head, seems like a rabbit hole. Maybe just get tr2 and motec would be good for me.
 

speedyserg

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no data yet though. I think the stage 1 kelford cam is in between tr2 and tr3, with the kelford needing spring replacements.

Im torn between tr2 and kelford, not sure which to pick up.

im also contemplating porting the head, seems like a rabbit hole. Maybe just get tr2 and motec would be good for me.
Spending 7k on motec to run TR2s would be a waste as you can easily dial in the TR4s if you wanted on motec.

Hondata is stuck with the oem VE charts so that's really the only tuning issue - there's also an internal torque request cap that basically limits the stock ECU to around 760whp or so

If you are aiming above that then motec is the only way past that. Below that it's overkill as hondata can easily be dialed in to that level and below.

I haven't seen anyone tune the kelfords so no way of knowing until someone does it. I'm surprised kelford hasn't released any dynos or details - would be interesting to see the specs and there isn't much difference between. Tr2s and 3s but it's enough to throw off the ecu 😆

I'm on full ferrea valvetrain so it's just a matter of dropping in the cams when I'm ready to test them - gonna upgrade my low pressure pump/fuel and probably drop in the cams then for a retune on the new fuel setup.

Until RV6 makes the anti surge/inlet combo for the R660 that will probably take me to the end of my journey with the stock bottom end power.

I know kelford is also releasing cams for the 1.5L motor so I'm watching that as well. We have a guy with an Si/upgraded turbo who will be testing a head port from JSR in a few weeks so cams would certainly make that even better on the top end.
 

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Spending 7k on motec to run TR2s would be a waste as you can easily dial in the TR4s if you wanted on motec.

Hondata is stuck with the oem VE charts so that's really the only tuning issue - there's also an internal torque request cap that basically limits the stock ECU to around 760whp or so

If you are aiming above that then motec is the only way past that. Below that it's overkill as hondata can easily be dialed in to that level and below.

I haven't seen anyone tune the kelfords so no way of knowing until someone does it. I'm surprised kelford hasn't released any dynos or details - would be interesting to see the specs and there isn't much difference between. Tr2s and 3s but it's enough to throw off the ecu 😆

I'm on full ferrea valvetrain so it's just a matter of dropping in the cams when I'm ready to test them - gonna upgrade my low pressure pump/fuel and probably drop in the cams then for a retune on the new fuel setup.

Until RV6 makes the anti surge/inlet combo for the R660 that will probably take me to the end of my journey with the stock bottom end power.

I know kelford is also releasing cams for the 1.5L motor so I'm watching that as well. We have a guy with an Si/upgraded turbo who will be testing a head port from JSR in a few weeks so cams would certainly make that even better on the top end.
Nice man.. you guys have access to all the good stuff. im still on the mhi turbo, so maybe just tr2 without chan valve train makes better sense for now. Just needed a fatter midrange torque curve.
 

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Nice man.. you guys have access to all the good stuff. im still on the mhi turbo, so maybe just tr2 without chan valve train makes better sense for now. Just needed a fatter midrange torque curve.
Thing about torque with our engines is it stresses the headgasket. Heat also torches the stock gasket so even if you don't make a bunch of power you can easily fry the bridges between the cyls with an engine that's running hot.

I think the best part of running a JE pro seal gasket now is I don't worry so much about the gasket failing - no misfire issues or coolant being injested.

If you want mid range torque - port the head - easy 50 to 70whp gain at dame boost levels. Gives you the chance to upgrade valvetrain and run much better headstuds that will clamp the head down. The 625+ arp studs with 14mm nuts are no joke.

I'm running 450wtq at 4400 and 490wtq at 6000rpm on stock cams on only 25* of timing .....we can probably go 28 to 30* if I wanted but 490 is pretty spicy. MHI already spools well but on a ported head it would be pretty nasty....feel like stock spool again once you port the head.

Cams are more so for keeping the powerband going past 7k where the stock cams just fall off ....from 7k to 7700ish I'm going from 600 to 550ish with stock cams. So to go 8200 with less drop off I need the TR2s.

But for mid range I don't think you can beat a ported head - it's not a cheap upgrade when done but sets you up for massive power reliably across the board. Plus the spool.....so much more response. Different car really
 

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Anyone torching head gaskets is all tuneup. We run OEM gaskets and Cometic MLS gaskets at 1700hp and 85psi boost.

OEM gasket on my Type R. 4 years of track days, thousands of laps at 600+hp, over 900 hp on dyno. I've never touched my engine. Never lashed it, hardly changed the oil on time LOL. Will make more power today than the day I put it in.
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