4 point harness for track days or more seat security

[ayau]

hey ayau, i think at this point i've provided sufficient counterpoints, if you're asking me to provide full research for you, it's a bit unreasonable, since you've yet to provide any for your own.

I’m just referring to the independent standard safety crash tests that all mass production cars have to go through.

Has there been independent studies for Schroth’s products?

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[willskiGT]

hey willskiGT, i think you're missing the point of this product. it's not to provide additional safety over a 3 point, but to provide the equivalent safety and additional stability. hence why the inside belt is intended to stretch in a crash event. i fully agree 6 point + fixed seat + full cage + hans is the way to go for full safety, but again, this isn't the point of the product.

the 3 point buckle again is not routed through the seat receptacle. i'm not talking about the upper shoulder strap passthroughs, but the lower ones by your butt. if you use that 3 point as mounted, you will absolutely submarine as there will not be any tension around your lower waist.

for hpde/racing, believe the OP is talking about track days, not racing. that's a different discussion, and i agree with the different set of requirements

My point is that all it provides is more security in the seat, which might lead to a false sense of security on track.

Watch the video I posted earlier from Schroth on this product. It does not look like the inner straps are deforming very much, and the test dummy significantly submarines in the seat. In fact, the demo video shows the dummy wearing a HANS device - that indicates to me that Schroth designed it primarily with HANS device use in mind. You shouldn't mix HANS use with an airbag.

I guess I just don't get who/what this product is for. The only use I can see is maybe for AutoX, where you're not likely to crash but could use additional security in the seat.

If you're in a scenario where you could have a high speed crash, either stick to the stock safety systems or go with a cage, 6 point, and HANS. A mix doesn't make any sense.

 

[garudatwo]

My point is that all it provides is more security in the seat, which might lead to a false sense of security on track.

Watch the video I posted earlier from Schroth on this product. It does not look like the inner straps are deforming very much, and the test dummy significantly submarines in the seat. In fact, the demo video shows the dummy wearing a HANS device - that indicates to me that Schroth designed it primarily with HANS device use in mind. You shouldn't mix HANS use with an airbag.

I guess I just don't get who/what this product is for. The only use I can see is maybe for AutoX, where you're not likely to crash but could use additional security in the seat.

If you're in a scenario where you could have a high speed crash, either stick to the stock safety systems or go with a cage, 6 point, and HANS. A mix doesn't make any sense.

i agree with your point on false sense of security, but that's not the discussion here. unfortunately you can't fix bad track mentality with hardware mods. as for the schroth video, i believe that's the last gen ASM belt, where both belts extend, vs the newer revision from i think '15 onwards with the inside belt only. i imagine the audience is for someone who wants to retain factory crash characteristics, but want to be strapped in a bit tighter to the car vs a 3 point.

 

[garudatwo]

I’m just referring to the independent standard safety crash tests that all mass production cars have to go through.

Has there been independent studies for Schroth’s products?

Schroth's product passed TUV testing for the AMG GT-R pro, does that suffice?

 

[ApexEight]

This video is a little newer. Draw your own conclusions, but the ASM design seems to work. I don't see a HANS device being used.

So the QuickFit Pro seems to be application specific with the CTR not being an option? The Rallye 4 ASM bolts to factory locations but lacks the standard seatbelt male buckles (and is significantly cheaper).

Idk how a seat itself can be designed to counter submarining - I've never read that idea before this thread.

I'd be disappointed if this product was available to the mass public and provided less protection than a standard 3-point in the event of crash, all other things held equal (not adding a HANS, harness bar, etc).

 

[hesitation]

Personally would never use a 4 point. IDC what safety they claim. No submarine harness no go for me.

Used CG locks in the past for 3 point seat belts in the S2000 and helps tons.

pretty sure this doesn't work with the stock FK8 seatbelt

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