27won turbo vs stock turbo 0-60 & 1/4

[TurboEclipse]

Hi unfortunately I was wrong, u need a final tune for the 27won turbo to feel the difference, I haven't got my final tune yet so i can't confirm yet but should get it by next month and I'll report back, I know exactly what u mean, my car felt slower too but it NEEDS to be tuned

DUH.. This should be obvious to anyone who mods their car.

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[360glitch]

I've revised the thread title to something a bit more appropriate.

 

[Edward]

Now in regards to those times.


How did you time the 0-60?

What were the conditions?

Same road?

Same temps?

Need to isolate out as many variables as you can to get a true comparison and see if the w1 is indeed slower on non-ethanol.

I timed it with my drag racer app and pretty accurate because I would get 0-100 in 5.9 sec 4 times out of 5 with stock turbo and 6.8 seconds with 27won turbo, same location all the time literally no traffic on that road after 10pm and temperature were about the same around 15 c

 

[Edward]

Is this 94 octane based on the (R+M)/2. or based on RON?

A FBO stock turbo car vs a FBO w1 turbo car running both 93 (US) octane, the W1 will win if you do a 1/4 mile run. A simple 20-70, my car was faster than my friends.

Front view:


Rear view:


Unfortunately I was not able to push it faster because I ran into a few CELs that will soon be addressed.

What part of FROM A DEAD STOP OR 1/4 DO U NOT UNDERSTAND? I'm not talking about 20-70

 

[Myx]

Why was this guy able to run 113mph trap speed in the 1/4 mile with a stock Si turbo and E35? This is the kind of stuff that's confusing. His power didn't drop off on the topend. Notice I'm speaking about the trap speed and not the 1/4 mile time since he is on slicks. 113mph though! That's not slow.





Now this guy below is more reasonable. His trap speed seems attainable with the stock turbo. Still not slow though.

 

[charleswrivers]

Why was this guy able to run 113mph trap speed in the 1/4 mile with a stock Si turbo and E35? This is the kind of stuff that's confusing. His power didn't drop off on the topend. Notice I'm speaking about the trap speed and not the 1/4 mile time since he is on slicks. 113mph though! That's not slow.





Now this guy below is more reasonable. His trap speed seems attainable with the stock turbo. Still now slow though.

I think E35 can make up for a lot of turbo-shortcomings. If you don't have to worry about detonation anymore... you can push boost pressure pretty wild until you're literally not pushing any more mass of air and can tweak ignition timing to the extremes. A well prepped track... good rubber and a great driver doing a heroic run doesn't hurt either. I'd think an E35 stock turbo car would be the equal of a properly tuned 93 27Won... and would be well ahead of a 27WON running a basemap. The 27Won basemaps look like they're maybe safe to drive but are nowhere near coming to the potential of what that turbo can do... even on pump gas. I'm led to believe those of us running nearly-stock cars running a MAP or TSP reflash are probably not far off what a custom tune could give us on 91/93.

 

[Myx]

I think E35 can make up for a lot of turbo-shortcomings. If you don't have to worry about detonation anymore... you can push boost pressure pretty wild until you're literally not pushing any more mass of air and can tweak ignition timing to the extremes. A well prepped track... good rubber and a great driver doing a heroic run doesn't hurt either. I'd think an E35 stock turbo car would be the equal of a properly tuned 93 27Won... and would be well ahead of a 27WON running a basemap. The 27Won basemaps look like they're maybe safe to drive but are nowhere near coming to the potential of what that turbo can do... even on pump gas. I'm led to believe those of us running nearly-stock cars running a MAP or TSP reflash are probably not far off what a custom tune could give us on 91/93.

Great points Charles! What do you think of Joshua's 27WON/Ethanol 13.3@108mph (On Street Tires) vs PRL's Si with stock turbo/Ethanol running 13.1@108mph (On Street Tires)? Both cars are said to be pushing to their 'peaks' tune wise, with very similar modifications. I say their 'peaks' because if a tuner could safely tune in more power, there's no reason not too. Only to tune for less power for the rods sake (Non-Si) and to prevent the CVT damage from torque down-low.

Then I see the 115mph above and am like, how are they able to trap so high on a stock turbo with E35 but PRL only went 108mph. The quicker time can be explained to the drag slicks but not the mph. 108mph vs 113mph on stock turbo seems significant. Yet their mods are similar. Unless the 113mph Civic dropped a lot of weight compared to PRL or Joshua's.

Guess I have some more digging to do.

 

[charleswrivers]

Great points Charles! What do you think of Joshua's 27WON/Ethanol 13.3@108mph (On Street Tires) vs PRL's Si with stock turbo/Ethanol running 13.1@108mph (On Street Tires)? Both cars are said to be pushing to their 'peaks' tune wise, with very similar modifications. I say their 'peaks' because if a tuner could safely tune in more power, there's no reason not too. Only to tune for less power for the rods sake (Non-Si) and to prevent the CVT damage from torque down-low.

Then I see the 115mph above and am like, how are they able to trap so high on a stock turbo with E35 but PRL only went 108mph. The quicker time can be explained to the drag slicks but not the mph. 108mph vs 113mph on stock turbo seems significant. Yet their mods are similar. Unless the 113mph Civic dropped a lot of weight compared to PRL or Joshua's.

Guess I have some more digging to do.

Gosh... I don't know. Either one is awful quick for a FWD in my book and matches a CTR's straight line. Kind of like dynos though... unless you were on the same one in the same environmental conditions (i.e. temp and elevation), and eliminated as many other variables as you could (i.e. running same rubber, all seasons or no)... then I kind of see it as cool comparisons but I don't split hairs about it too much. One could be functionally faster than the other if you stuck them side by side but until you did so... then all those little factors play in to make it sort of a wash. The 115 is pretty wild though. Once you've got traction sorted out... good driver or so-so... you really need a good deal of power to put a high trap speed and 115 on a stock turbo...? Eh... I assume it was a very cool day or other supporting mods to really let it sing. Given that number, regardless of it's time was... I'd assume it's the most powerful one of the lot and I'd assume to have a ~50 whp advantage over the cars doing 108 assuming they had full interiors. [I had to check one of those random trap speed vs HP calculators and... yeah... 50 hp is about what it takes... 300 vs 350 hp for a 3000 lb car takes from from 108 to 115 MPH.] All of them are very impressive though.

 

[xjoshuax89]

What part of FROM A DEAD STOP OR 1/4 DO U NOT UNDERSTAND? I'm not talking about 20-70

Not properly tuned basemap to make your comparison... Sigh... Pointless thread...

 

[xjoshuax89]

need to consider what other factors

Why was this guy able to run 113mph trap speed in the 1/4 mile with a stock Si turbo and E35? This is the kind of stuff that's confusing. His power didn't drop off on the topend. Notice I'm speaking about the trap speed and not the 1/4 mile time since he is on slicks. 113mph though! That's not slow.





Now this guy below is more reasonable. His trap speed seems attainable with the stock turbo. Still now slow though.

need to consider the tune/tuner.

VitViper is known to be pretty aggressive in his tunes for the 10th Gen platform. I know for sure that he is far more aggressive than DRob's.

Also could weight play a factor?

Also tire/wheel size?

 

[xjoshuax89]

Great points Charles! What do you think of Joshua's 27WON/Ethanol 13.3@108mph (On Street Tires) vs PRL's Si with stock turbo/Ethanol running 13.1@108mph (On Street Tires)? Both cars are said to be pushing to their 'peaks' tune wise, with very similar modifications. I say their 'peaks' because if a tuner could safely tune in more power, there's no reason not too. Only to tune for less power for the rods sake (Non-Si) and to prevent the CVT damage from torque down-low.

Then I see the 115mph above and am like, how are they able to trap so high on a stock turbo with E35 but PRL only went 108mph. The quicker time can be explained to the drag slicks but not the mph. 108mph vs 113mph on stock turbo seems significant. Yet their mods are similar. Unless the 113mph Civic dropped a lot of weight compared to PRL or Joshua's.

Guess I have some more digging to do.

Stock to Stock

Si Sedan weighs 2900ish lbs and ST Hatch weighs 3000lbs. Mine probably weighs more than that due to stuff I added onto the car such as upgraded speakers and other things in the car.

PRL's Si that did the 13.1435 at 108.77 MPH seem to be on RPFs and since its stock tires its 18 inch wheels just like mine.

So 15 inch wheel vs 18 inch wheel.

Gearing playing a factor perhaps with the wheel sizes?

 

[Myx]

Stock to Stock

Si Sedan weighs 2900ish lbs and ST Hatch weighs 3000lbs. Mine probably weighs more than that due to stuff I added onto the car such as upgraded speakers and other things in the car.

PRL's Si that did the 13.1435 at 108.77 MPH seem to be on RPFs and since its stock tires its 18 inch wheels just like mine.

Ok....so weight can (and do) play a factor. That's understandable! Tire traction with same diameter, not so much for trap speed. Time...yes, because PRL had a 60ft time of 2.0. That's huge on street tires so the quicker 1/4 mile time. But they are trapping at the same speed as you (108mph) which is an indication of the power they are making with the stock turbo vs your 27Won. Which to me, makes no sense but there it is.

So 15 inch wheel vs 18 inch wheel.

Gearing playing a factor perhaps with the wheel sizes?

If this is in reference to me, that's why I take my car out of the equation. The lighter wheel, lighter tires that I have as well as the smaller diameter is significant with allowing me more power to accelerate but my 60ft time has suffered some due to less traction/grip. So my 1/4 mile time is a little slower but I picked up some trap speed.


The darn tracks need to open up already. I'm tired of talking.

All this does make for some interesting discussion. I like talking but I am more about results rather than speculation. Results and why the results are the way that they are. I'm ready!
I'm hoping between the 27Won Tip and the Boostane tune map, I can attain a 108mph trap speed., like the stock turbo's and 27Won's are doing on ethanol. Not sure where I'll be with the 1/4 mile time though.

My Goal this year: Shooting for a 13.2-13.3@107-108mph. 93 Octane (With Boostane Octane Booster) and Stock Turbo (Si Turbo in my case).

 

[xjoshuax89]

Ok....so weight can (and do) play a factor. That's understandable! Tire traction with same diameter, not so much for trap speed. Time...yes, because PRL had a 60ft time of 2.0. That's huge on street tires so the quicker 1/4 mile time. But they are trapping at the same speed as you (108mph) which is an indication of the power they are making with the stock turbo vs your 27Won. Which to me, makes no sense but there it is.





If this is in reference to me, that's why I take my car out of the equation. The lighter wheel, lighter tires that I have as well as the smaller diameter is significant with allowing me more power to accelerate but my 60ft time has suffered some due to less traction/grip. So my 1/4 mile time is a little slower but I picked up some trap speed.


The darn tracks need to open up already. I'm tired of talking.

All this does make for some interesting discussion. I like talking but I am more about results rather than speculation. Results and why the results are the way that they are. I'm ready!
I'm hoping between the 27Won Tip and the Boostane tune map, I can attain a 108mph trap speed., like the stock turbo's and 27Won's are doing on ethanol. Not sure where I'll be with the 1/4 mile time though.

My Goal this year: Shooting for a 13.2-13.3@107-108mph. 93 Octane (With Boostane Octane Booster) and Stock Turbo (Si Turbo in my case).

Nah in the case of the Si's that were trapping higher than PRL's and My car.

Both Eman's and that other black Si were running 15inch slicks.

And cecil open starting Wed! I need my damn race maf and then a proper retune with my TIP/fmic/maf all sorted out.

 

[xjoshuax89]

Also this had me thinking...

With far less torque than the Si, I'm sure the CVTs would really benefit from smaller and lighter wheels. Less tq needed to push the wheels . Just need some stickier compound to get that traction. Maybe 15x8.5.... lolol

 

[Edward]

Not properly tuned basemap to make your comparison... Sigh... Pointless thread...

Ahahahaha says the guy whose tuned out to max and even has the flex fuel and still lost to a stock turbo ???

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