2019 CTR or 2019 Camaro SS 1LE?.

sjd

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Snoopyslr

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There is also a ZL1 1LE. :p

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-at-lightning-lap-2017-feature

It's MUCH faster than a GT350R, 6 seconds around VIR at Car & Driver's Lightning Lap, and was actually faster than a 911 GT3!

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-times-historical-data
Yes... but the ZL1 with 1LE package cost as much as two CTRs. That thing costs $72,000 sticker and I doubt anybody is buying them under $90,000-100,000.

The ZL1 is an amazing machine.

Ha, kind of cool to have a GM employee pick a CTR over their bread and butter!
Don't get too excited, If I was dropping $40,000 on a car I wouldn't buy a CTR either.
 

.grimace

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If you go the Mustang route then get the LFP 800hp package. It should be close to the same price as a regular GT and I think it comes with a warranty.
That's a bit much for me, I like to road race my cars and while you could keep that under control I think the PP2 18'+ mustang is a much faster/ balanced package.
 

Ghostype_R

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Personally I bought a 2017 1LE over zl1 so I could have enough funds for the type r on release. So yes if you have the 60,000 buy both :headbang:
 

RacingManiac

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Ha, kind of cool to have a GM employee pick a CTR over their bread and butter!
I also work for GM and I bought a CTR also. If I just look for speed and buy as a 2nd car I probably would buy a SS 1LE over a lot of cars, but its not gonna work for me as an only car.

I'd love for us to make a hot hatch but that ship has sailed a long time ago....

Also on equal tires I think SS 1LE will give GT350 a run for its money....its a stupid capable car....
 


Boostlag

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You guys know the 1LE is a performance package right? You get Recaro seats, 20" wheels, Brembos, suspension upgrades, and an oil cooler. I feel like some of you are confusing the ZL1 with a 1LE.

A Camaro SS 1LE is not in the same league as a GT350. The ZL1 is in the same league as the GT350

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs

if you look at the motortrend laptimes, they are pretty much even. 1le has always been in fraction of a sec off gt350.
 

d15b7

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hey fellas. I think i can add some useful input to this discussion; first off - I'm a pro driver coach (I teach for PCA, BMW CCA, NASA, IMG, Chin, and others); I hold race licenses with SCCA, NASA, and VRG. I own and race a 95 Civic EG with K24/20 frankenstien EFR7163 turbo 6 speed trans (around 550 whp and 2300 lbs), so my new 2018 CTR is my 'slow car' I guess lol! anyway, enough about me; I've driven the cars you are discussing (plus lots more) on quite a few racetracks and also on the street. here's some of my thoughts and feelings (all these cars were bone stock when I drove them):

GT350 -- major improvement over earlier mustangs. sounds INCREDIBLE especially with the baffles open. best sounding car by FAR. brakes are extremely good; handling on track is very good (but not as good as the ZL1-1LE). car feels heavy (it is heavy!). power is very good (but ZL1-1LE destroys it coming out of corners). steering feel is good (I like the CTR better) and similar to the ZL1-1LE. shifting is good. car is fairly stable at speeds but no where near as good as ZL1-1LE. not very good interior room for such a big heavy car (not particularly useful for everyday use if you are hauling more than one person or equipment). I really liked this car (but for 70k+ it's not a bargain).

ZL1-1LE -- this car is a track weapon. it is incredibly fast on track (the stock tires are SUPER grippy and basically a R comp). brakes are VERY good. visibility is poor out the sides and rear. car is very stable at high speeds. steering is good but not great. power is immense and immediate. the suspension is incredibly good on track; not as good on street (too racey). for the money it is a bargain for track use. not very good interior room for such a big heavy car (not particularly useful for everyday use if you are hauling more than one person or equipment). I wouldn't buy this car if it was primarily for street use though. to much racecar not enough street manners and practicality.

Cayman R -- this car has the best steering feel of just about anything i've ever driven. brakes are fantastic. power is good everywhere but not overpowering (from a roll my CTR feels very similar in power to the Cayman R). balance is FANTASTIC. shifting is very good. this car feels small and nimble compared to the GT350 and ZL1-1LE. sounds very good too. suspension is stiff but livable in softest setting on the street. very very good in Sport Plus for the track. would not be practical for me due to very little storage or room for everyday use. but I LOVED this car on track -- not as fast as the GT350 and no where near as fast on track as the ZL1-1LE, but I'd almost say that it's more fun to drive.

Cayman GT4 -- see above. most of what I've said about the Cayman R applies to the GT4. GT4 has more power and better acceleration. but honestly I liked the Cayman R better -- it just felt 'right' and I enjoyed it more on track.

C7 Z06 with Z07 package -- very fast car, but honestly it didn't do anything as well as the ZL1-1LE; hard to believe but for the money the ZL1-1LE is a much better buy. plus this car was nervous at very high speeds and high speed cornering/braking. takes more competence to drive this hard. don't buy this unless you really want a corvette for its looks. buy the ZL1-1LE instead.

BMW M2 -- I only had limitied experience with this car, and I liked the low end torque it had. the engine note was nice. brakes were good (but not great). handling was very good, but not fantastic. interior was very small and not good for more than two adults. for the price I wouldn't even consider this car; I'd take a GT350 way before I'd buy this (as I said the ZL1-1LE is just too hard core for everyday use).

CTR - first off let me start with I needed a functional everyday car, but I wanted a very sporty fun rare car too. (I had previously had an EVO VIII a few years back and owned it a long time). the CTR does EVERYTHING better than my EVO other than drag racing from a dig. (my EVO was lightly tuned with cat delete, 3" downpipe, muffler delete, HKS 264 cams, and a reflash and track alignment). the CTR has the best trans/shifting of any car I've ever driven. it's incredibly positive but light too. brakes are AMAZING in this car (right in there with the best of the best). handling is an incredible blend of livability and grip without beating you to death too (handling and suspension is the most incredible thing about this car in my opinion. I dont know how the engineers did it but is fantastic!!!). power and engine are good -- it could use another 75 hp to make it perfect but 90% of the time the power is just right. power comes on smooth and very torquey and smooth and never falls off all the way to redline. sound is meh; but most 4 cyl cars sound meh and not much you can do about that. interior is great and seats are just about the best I've sat in! incredible seats. and interior room -- it is PERFECT for my needs (often need to take 4 adults, and carry packages and computers and whatnot in the hatch. very very useful every day car compared to any of the above). and pricing? nothing comes close to it (if you can get it for MSRP, which I did, after weeks of bartering). so the blend of handling, ride, usefulness, and performance sold me on this car. if a really good driver is piloting it, it will keep up with/keep in sight most anything on a track too.

EDIT: thought you guys might like to see a few laps of me testing/tuning my EG track car at NJMP Thunderbolt racetrack; I was doing some coaching and brought the EG (I usually don't when I'm coaching but this time I had made some adjustments). this is at low boost (15psi around 475 whp) and on some old beat Nitto NT01s (usual competition tires are Hankook C71 soft compound near slicks). even in the Red rungroup (fastest rungroup for Instructors and track prepped cars mostly) I never really got any clean laps all weekend (after about 4-5 laps the tires and brake pads are getting hot and so is the engine so I typically don't do more than 10 mins at a time). my little home built EG makes the other cars look like they are on a cool down lap haha. (can't give it full power unless it's in 5th gear above 90+ mph due to wheel spin on these beat tires). enjoy:

 
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superchi

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After d15b7's post, I don't know if I have anything nearly as valuable or informative to add when it comes to the performance aspect of the Camaro lol. I do have a 2017 1SS and am thinking of switching to a CTR. I can't speak for the 1LE version, but the 6th gen in its base 1SS form is a fantastic car. Great power, great sound, handles great on the street. It's been a long back and forth in my head whether I really want to switch to the CTR or not and most of the things that weigh on me relate to daily-driving the Camaro:
  • Operating costs are not completely terrible or unexpected, but should definitely be a consideration. I've gone through a set of rear tires every 8-10K miles, which has cost about $700-800 each time. I average about 13-14 MPG mixed driving. My insurance premium is a big ouch.
  • Depreciation has been a monster.
  • Practicality is obviously poor relative to the Civic, but is decently manageable on its own. I was able to fit two adults, a baby seat, and their luggage for a ride home from the airport with some careful tetris arrangement, but I would never do any kind of long drive with anyone in the back seat. I also get funny looks when I've gone to load up at Ikea.
  • Nearly everyone who has gotten into the car has commented how it feels like a coffin because of the poor visibility and admittedly, it was sketchy for me for the first couple of weeks of driving it. You do get used to it after a while. Blind spots are horrible but can be mitigated by applying copious amounts of throttle to make whatever you think is in your blind spot be far behind you in a short amount of time.
  • Interior is comfortable (for the driver), albeit a little spartan. For a while, I wished that I'd spent the extra for the 1LE; the improvement in the interior touches between it and the base make a lot of difference. I spend a lot of time in my car so it'd be nice to have something more interesting to look at.
  • Wet weather driving can be really sketchy depending on what tires you go with. I bought a Fit (I'm secretly a Honda guy) and was daily-driving it for a few months. I decided to try the Goodyear F1 Supercar 3s that are OEM on the 1LE since I wasn't driving the Camaro but on sunny days. Ended up giving the Fit to my dad and have gone back to daily-driving the Camaro. They're great tires in the dry, but a little scary in the wet. Imagine going 60MPH on the highway in the rain being very careful and minding your own business, only to still feel the car want to let go while gliding over a long puddle. I have 11" rear wheels and you feel every single bit of that 305 cross section when it touches water.
  • Much like when young children motion to a semi truck driver to pull the air horn, at least once a week I get asked by a stranger on the road to rev it out.
 

RacingManiac

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Also FYI the "1LE " trim for different level of Camaros are pretty different, just in general:

1LE(4 cylinder turbo): New for facelifted car, based on the 4 cylinder base car. Adds Camaro SS size wheels and tires(20x8.5/20x9.5). Retuned passive shocks, springs, and suspension bushings, sway bars, trans/diff cooler, 4 pot front brakes with larger rotors, track rated in GM speak, mechanical LSD. Unique exterior(black hood, splitter, spoiler, wheels)

V6 1LE(V6): Similar to LTG(in fact most parts are common). Same idea in general. Changes made to account for weight differences between V6 and 4 cylinder

SS 1LE: Camaro SS based(V8 LT1). ZL1 size wheels and tires(20x10/20x11). MR damper standard with unique SS 1LE calibrations. Added eLSD as standard(replaces mechanical LSD). Unique swaybar/spring/bushing. Unique exterior(different from non-V8 cars, also different from "wide body" cars). 6 piston 2 piece rotors front brakes and 4 piston rear brakes(same with ZL1), extra coolers, dual mode exhaust standard, recaros standard.

ZL1 1LE: Camaro ZL1 based(supercharged LT4, no dry sump compare to Z06). Unique size wheels(19x11/19x12), unique tires(Goodyear Eagle F1 G3R, 305/325). Multimatic DSSV Passive Damper. Unique swaybar/spring/bushing tuning(rear sway bar adjustable), solid subframe mount, different front strut mount with more camber adjustments). carry over ZL1 brakes, unique eLSD cal, unique exterior aero package(splitter, diveplanes, rear wing). Extra coolers, dual mode exhaust, and recaros standard.
 


Dragnet

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I'd always choose the Type R over any SS variant for road use for the various reasons that have been listed. Mostly though I do like the fact that the CTR is pretty unique... not as much as the ITR but still unique. The thing I don't care about when it comes to the SS variants is the fact that they're everywhere. The same can be said with Mustang GT's. But that's just my stance on it. If you don't care about that at all then you may prefer the Camaro. But if you do would you pretty pretty please just get the ZL1 1LE so you can show it off on this website? I love that car! There was a black one that sat outside my local dealership for months. It hurt my feelings that it was outside and not in the showroom. It had a sticker price of around 72k. Is it safe to assume that they would not even put a sticker price on it they were marking it up?
That would make sense that it sat outside for so long if the price was jacked up.
 
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midlifejohnny

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Again, great feedback boys.. I appreciate everyone taking the time to post real user experiences. Superchi was extra helpful because that's exactly what im looking for. CTR has a lot of storage and great truck space etc.. If its truly a weekend car only the Camaro is def worth me considering but as more of a daily its hard to beat.. My Lady is struggling with my thought process if Im being honest. I cant blame her but still... How did you guys get the special person in your life on board?? Escalade and 911 to a "car with a wing" Tough one..
 

.grimace

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My wife likes cars as well and since I pay for them she really doesn't care to complain either. She buys things she likes, I buy things I like and as long as we get the mortgages paid and add to our savings life goes on.
 

zsak

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Again, great feedback boys.. I appreciate everyone taking the time to post real user experiences. Superchi was extra helpful because that's exactly what im looking for. CTR has a lot of storage and great truck space etc.. If its truly a weekend car only the Camaro is def worth me considering but as more of a daily its hard to beat.. My Lady is struggling with my thought process if Im being honest. I cant blame her but still... How did you guys get the special person in your life on board?? Escalade and 911 to a "car with a wing" Tough one..
My wife liked the idea of the Type R because it was a Honda and relatively inexpensive new compared to the other cars I was looking at. She wants me to keep this one a long time because I have already wasted enough money with changing cars lol. So far I can say this one is a keeper.
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