2019 Civic vs. 2019 Mazda 3

charleswrivers

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Isn't torsion beam the one that goes 3-wheeled on corners if they're pushed pretty much at all?

I read an article a minute ago where someone at Mazda basically dismissed it saying it was only an issue is the car was driven harder than you'd drive it on the road and people won't drive that hard.. or something to that effect. Seems like a piss poor excuse for a car that was supposed to be geared towards enthusiasts.

I used to really like Mazdas. I always test drove them and liked them, though not enough to take them home. I'd also seen some stuff about their Skyactive X engines not making it in the '19s...? But I think I've been reading for 2 years they'd be in the '19 Mazda 3. I can't find much about it though. They've talked it up so much and about how great it was going to be, now it's kind of quiet. If they're not introducing it state-side this year after so much hype, it may be a slim sales year for them.
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jred721

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Isn't torsion beam the one that goes 3-wheeled on corners if they're pushed pretty much at all?

I read an article a minute ago where someone at Mazda basically dismissed it saying it was only an issue is the car was driven harder than you'd drive it on the road and people won't drive that hard.. or something to that effect. Seems like a piss poor excuse for a car that was supposed to be geared towards enthusiasts.

I used to really like Mazdas. I always test drove them and liked them, though not enough to take them home. I'd also seen some stuff about their Skyactive X engines not making it in the '19s...? But I think I've been reading for 2 years they'd be in the '19 Mazda 3. I can't find much about it though. They've talked it up so much and about how great it was going to be, now it's kind of quiet. If they're not introducing it state-side this year after so much hype, it may be a slim sales year for them.
I read this article: https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news...da3-have-a-torsion-beam-rear-suspension-.html and I have to agree with it at some level. These cars will pretty much never see a track and 98% of the time you'll be daily driving it. Which means if Mazda managed to pull some trickery and actually make the car handle well in spite of the torsion beam, then it's still a contender. They go on to say that it allowed them to have more cargo room. I'd say that all of our assumptions about the Mazda 3 are merely just speculation, there aren't even any solid reviews on this car yet. I'd have to drive one and look at some reviews to say anything for sure.

Only definite area the Mazda 3 falls flat on it's face is the engine, without the Skyactive-X engine lineup the car's competitiveness with Honda's engine lineup is seriously bad. If they can't manage to stuff those engines in the cars by the end of 2019, then it's a game over for them in that aspect. I'm just interested to see how they setup the car and what decisions they make, that'll determine whether the Mazda 3 is a pile of crap or not.
 

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Seems like a piss poor excuse for a car that was supposed to be geared towards enthusiasts.
The point is that they're not aiming at that market anymore. The VP of Mazda claimed that the mazdaspeed line is childish.
They want Mazda to be a semi-premium brand, which can clearly be told from the new 3's interior design.

Edit: Source (Yahoo news)

I read this article: https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news...da3-have-a-torsion-beam-rear-suspension-.html and I have to agree with it at some level. These cars will pretty much never see a track and 98% of the time you'll be daily driving it. Which means if Mazda managed to pull some trickery and actually make the car handle well in spite of the torsion beam, then it's still a contender. They go on to say that it allowed them to have more cargo room. I'd say that all of our assumptions about the Mazda 3 are merely just speculation, there aren't even any solid reviews on this car yet. I'd have to drive one and look at some reviews to say anything for sure.

Only definite area the Mazda 3 falls flat on it's face is the engine, without the Skyactive-X engine lineup the car's competitiveness with Honda's engine lineup is seriously bad. If they can't manage to stuff those engines in the cars by the end of 2019, then it's a game over for them in that aspect. I'm just interested to see how they setup the car and what decisions they make, that'll determine whether the Mazda 3 is a pile of crap or not.
I've driven a lot of current gen Mazda 3s and I really don't like this powertrain. My EX 2.0 is more responsive and sound better, albeit less powerful.
I wouldn't say that torsion beam is guaranteed to be bad, and from some Australian videos the reviewers are quite satisfied with the driving experiences.
But you know the cargo space excuse is bs when the new 3s have less cargo space than the current generation. It is all about cost saving.
Mazda clearly spend most of their budget toward the refinement of the interior with high quality materials and nice design (not my thing though).
 

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WTF was Mazda thinking with the torsion beam suspension?? They are supposed to be a car company thats all about the driving experience first but then they go pull this shit? Crazy and weird.
Mazda has said they're doing it to meet NVH goals, but there are too many quiet cars with fully independent multi-link rear suspension and too many noisy cars with the el-cheapo torsion beam suspension to give that excuse any credence. The rear suspension has negligible effect on NVH. This is a cheap-out. They stripped quality and cost out of the chassis to build a nicer interior. This might be OK for some depending on your priorities. It might be OK if the price were held the same but Mazda also jacked the price way way up. They're smoking crack on the pricing. Those cars are gonna sit unloved and unsold on dealer lots till they...ahem...get their pricing more in alignment with what people will pay. Hold out if you're still interested. As for me, no skyactiv-x no care.
 

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I read this article: https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news...da3-have-a-torsion-beam-rear-suspension-.html and I have to agree with it at some level. These cars will pretty much never see a track and 98% of the time you'll be daily driving it. Which means if Mazda managed to pull some trickery and actually make the car handle well in spite of the torsion beam, then it's still a contender. They go on to say that it allowed them to have more cargo room. I'd say that all of our assumptions about the Mazda 3 are merely just speculation, there aren't even any solid reviews on this car yet. I'd have to drive one and look at some reviews to say anything for sure...
The Mazda marketing folks are certainly going to put on their tap-dancing shoes and tout the benefits of their new k-mart rear suspension. It does save cost and space, but the cost savings are certainly not passed on to the customer (!) and the space savings are unrealized in the hatch. The specs are already out for the hatch in Australia and the volume is smaller 308L to 295L than the outgoing Mazda3. Let's get real, though: You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If it were possible to build a el-chepo semi-independent torsion beam suspension suspension that performed as well as a good fully-independent multi-link suspension, the multi-link wouldn't exist.
 


iulianm

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If their torsion beam is so good as their marketing team says, I want to see the marvelous piece of engineering in the CX-5, CX-9 and Mazda 6.

What they should do is exactly what VW, Ford, Mercedes and Audi did in Europe with their compact cars: entry level engines get torsion beam to make them cheaper and the more powerful engines gets multi-link suspension.

Believe it or not, you can buy in Europe an Audi A3 with a 1l 3 cylinder engine which has a torsion beam rear end; you can get the same engine and suspension in a Golf and a similar 1l 3 cylinder engine in the new Ford Focus which also gets a torsion beam. Upgrading to an engine with more than 150HP will get you the multi-link suspension as well.

I think this would please people: make entry level cheaper and upper level handle better.
 

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My wife has been wanting a new family car ever since I picked up my Si last spring. She wanted a white 6-speed sedan, which for a while we thought was going to be another Si. After looking at the 2018 Mazda3's, though, she changed her mind. Some things that steered her that way:

  • Exterior is more fluid/wavier/softer. She likes the look of the civics, but the 3 just feels more lady-like.
  • OTD price on a Touring MT Sedan is $20k, much less than an Si.
  • Si has more "enthusiast" features (adj. dampers, LSD, etc). Mazda3 has more comforts, or even the same ones at a lower price (moon roof, leather seats, car play, etc,).
  • We own a CX-9 currently, and she has owned an MX-3 in the past. Both vehicles have been extremely reliable. I know I might catch crap for saying this on a Honda forum, but reliability between the brands is identical in our experience.
  • Even the best LX deals we were quoted cost more than the 3 ($19k+TTL+Destination), and don't have leather, moon roof, etc.
We go pick up the car tonight and I'm excited to personally compare it to the Civic over the next few weeks.
 

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Mazda's skyactiv-x engine is a remarkable achievement. I remember decades ago that Honda was experimenting with compression ignition gasoline (HCCI) engines in a motorcycle test mule. HCCI engines held a lot of promise and all the major auto manufacturers had big R&D efforts underway to bring the technology to market. Nearly all eventually abandoned their efforts because of their inability to make HCCI viable under all operating conditions. Mazda's skyactiv-x announcement was the automotive story of the century. They not only had working prototypes for journalists to drive, Mazda said the engine would be for sale in the fall of 2018. That got pushed out to spring of 2019 which got pushed out to....? The new story is that it will go on sale next year in countries that have strict emissions rules only. Forgive me if the engine is starting to sound like the perennial no-show diesel promised for the US market. (8 years promised. 8 years a no-show).

In any case, the engine has to make financial sense. That is, the up-charge can't be greater than gas mileage savings over 4 years. With the massive price increases for the non-skyactiv-x models, that doesn't look hopeful.
 

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Went to Atlanta Auto Show last weekend and took some pictures of the new 3.

Honda Civic 10th gen 2019 Civic vs. 2019 Mazda 3 20190323_173949


Honda Civic 10th gen 2019 Civic vs. 2019 Mazda 3 20190323_174051


Honestly I am not impressed like I expected would be.
The interior has a lot of soft touch material which is positive, but all the gloss black around the center stack make it easily scratched up and greasy.
The area separating the climate control and infotainment screen is too large and cut the flow of the design.
The space is still on the smaller side, my Civic is still more relax to me.
Exterior design of the sedan is very similar to the new Mazda 6 and nothing really stands out to me. Good looking, but nothing special.
Backend of the hatchback is even more weird seeing in person than in the video. Not a single body line and the trunk feels smaller than a Honda Fit.
Without driving the car, Civic is still the better option for me. Considering the drive train is completely the same as last gen, Civic is easily the better car.
 


IDriveACivic

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Modern Mazda - lots of marketing and hype. Form over function.

Still interested to see the SkyActiv X models though, not this reskinned 3rd gen 3.
 

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I've spent some time in my wife's '18 Mazda3 Touring Sedan. Though, mostly in the passenger seat. I've only driven it a couple of times. Probably not fair to compare it to an Si (it was 4k cheaper). But, it's what I have to go on.
  • Her clutch is a lot stiffer, and there is no rev hang business between gears. There is also no notchy-ness in the shifts. A lot of what people complain about from out 6-speed is improved here. Only negative in my opinion was that the gates felt kind of vague. Like, I think I'm in gear but not entirely sure. Could just be me being use to my own shifter, though.
  • Some interior finishes feel superior, but others do not. The climate controls are much better than on the 2017/2018 Si's. No clunkiness or lag as it's all handled from outside infotainment. But, the infotainment itself is not a touch screen and just looks out of place to me on top of the dash. The screen also seems smaller, but haven't measured it out. (feaux) Leather seats are nice, but don't hug me like the seats in the Si. I am sure they are deemed nicer than cloth seats by the majority of people, though. Also, the moonroof in the 3 is a big plus if you compare it to a lower trim Civic that doesn't have one.
  • The instrument cluster just seems old. I'm really spoiled by the Civic's digital display and customization options. Driving a car with a back-lit instrument cluster really makes you appreciate the upgrade on the Civic.
  • I didn't race it or gun it, but the 2.4L felt pretty peppy. If you drive a 1.5L and don't like the lag of the turbo, it's not present here in the 3. No complaints on the engine, other than I didn't get to gun it!
  • Lastly, the car just feels small to me (and I drive a coupe). I think I would stay out of the Mazda3 line just for that reason alone. When I'm in it, I feel smooshed.
If you want a relatively cheap sedan, with a good interior, great engine, and good gas mileage, the Mazda3 is a great choice with the only major down-side being cabin space. If you don't mind spending an extra $4k-5k for a ride more geared towards enthusiasts, buy an Si (or other comparable model if you don't want a MT).
 
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jred721

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So I saw Doug's video on the Mazda 3 and damn...its really making me wonder whether I should go for a Mazda 3 once the lease runs out on my Civic. The red metallic color looks absolutely stunning, the interior completely blows away the Civic's interior and it's almost luxury car level, the sedan looks pretty great and premium as well. I haven't driven a new 3 myself but I kind of agree with Doug's consensus at the end of the video, it has all of the great qualities of the Civic but it just seems like it's a little better and more refined in some areas. I know people are going on about the suspension but the fact is unless you're planning on tracking the car or consistently driving it on backroads, you would hardly notice a difference in the suspension setups for day to day driving. Also, the AWD is nice to have sometimes for snow or bad weather. These are just my observations though, i'd have to actually drive the car to see how it is. I still maintain that the Civic is a FANTASTIC car but as of now, I can see the Mazda edging out over it.
 
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So I saw Doug's video on the Mazda 3 and damn...its really making me wonder whether I should go for a Mazda 3 once the lease runs out on my Civic. The red metallic color looks absolutely stunning, the interior completely blows away the Civic's interior and it's almost luxury car level, the sedan looks pretty great and premium as well. I haven't driven a new 3 myself but I kind of agree with Doug's consensus at the end of the video, it has all of the great qualities of the Civic but it just seems like it's a little better and more refined in some areas. I know people are going on about the suspension but the fact is unless you're planning on tracking the car or consistently driving it on backroads, you would hardly notice a difference in the suspension setups for day to day driving. Also, the AWD is nice to have sometimes for snow or bad weather. These are just my observations though, i'd have to actually drive the car to see how it is. I still maintain that the Civic is a FANTASTIC car but as of now, I can see the Mazda edging out over it.

Throttlehouse just published this video this morning.


You really need to sit in Mazda 3 before you make your decision. It is so cramped inside that I can't stretch my knee and elbow, and I'm just 5'11".
The interior also is nice, but I agree with Throttlehouse that it is more of the "skin-deep" kind of nice.
The one I sat in has scratches all over the piano black and look super cheap.
If I were you I would definitely wait till late 2020 and see what Honda has to offer in the next gen Civic.
 

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Whenever Mazda decides to release their SkyX with the 2L engine - it will be incredible.
Honda’s next Gen will actually see a slight decrease to probably 1.4L - but the engine will be more efficient and they’ll squeeze out the same power level with a bit more mpg.

Looking at benchwork already completed, this seems to be the path.
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