2019 1.5L - Watch Your Oil Levels....

amirza786

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your just trying to pick the lesser of two evils, both are equally bad,

more oil dilution, or an over filled engine

having your oil over filled, is just as bad as under filled,
Manufactures have built into their design an engine oil reserve in cases where someone may accidentally overfill and that oil will expand when heated. If you add a half quart over, there is no harm. More than that, then the oil might reach the crankshaft and it may aerate which causes foaming. So if you fill it up to or near the top fill line, and due to some fuel dilution it raises a little (10cc as and example), that is not a big concern. Now if it raises way beyond the top line, that may indicate a problem
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amirza786

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the post i originally quoted said his oil level was up to the top of the orange plastic,

so that is a heck of a lot more then 10cc.....that would be at least a half liter or more over filled
You should visit your Honda dealer, you may have a leaky injector
 

BrashSi

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So is the above report the Honda oil on the right, and Mobile 1 on the left, correct? 2.5 is high, but one of the factors could be the tech started the car and drove it to the bay, which would make oil dilution higher because it didn't warm up enough. 1.8 is still in the acceptable range
This is correct. The two reports on the left are Mobil 1 0W-20 AFE and the single column on the right is what the dealer put in 0W-20 Semi-Syn (I want to say it was Castrol, but not sure). One of those Mobil 1 changes was done by the dealer as well (I had done my own oil change, but took it to the dealer to have them do the Transmission service and had them change the oil at that point as well, but I brought my own Mobil 1 for them to put in as well).

Either way, it's still lower than the Semi-Syn and i'm ok if the dillution is that low over 9500+ miles. If it was showing that much dilution at 5-6000 miles, I'd be more concerned.
 

Design

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I don't think a quick startup at the dealer (especially on a car that was recently driven) is going to be enough to influence dilution rates. This is usually the culmination of months upon months of cold starts/short trips where the oil never reaches operating temps - like EVER. Each cold startup cycle probably only results in a few drops of fuel creeping down the cylinder walls. Magnify that event 1-2x over 180 days, and you probably have some moderate dilution there.

Even so, the MM is tracking each and every cold start & trip duration. We've really never seen events where rising levels aren't being mitigated through a standard OCI. And that's been backed up through our available oil analysis results to date.

Those who are sharing information outside these parameters, could be encountering issues independent of typical TCDI dilution. As mentioned, ring clearance and injector performance can also be a factor here - especially on aging motors.
 

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I don't think a quick startup at the dealer (especially on a car that was recently driven) is going to be enough to influence dilution rates. This is usually the culmination of months upon months of cold starts/short trips where the oil never reaches operating temps - like EVER. Each cold startup cycle probably only results in a few drops of fuel creeping down the cylinder walls. Magnify that event 1-2x over 180 days, and you probably have some moderate dilution there.

Even so, the MM is tracking each and every cold start & trip duration. We've really never seen events where rising levels aren't being mitigated through a standard OCI. And that's been backed up through our available oil analysis results to date.

Those who are sharing information outside these parameters, could be encountering issues independent of typical TCDI dilution. As mentioned, ring clearance and injector performance can also be a factor here - especially on aging motors.
I'm quite sure you can get much more then a few drops per cycle even without any defects, such as loose piston rings or leaking injectors. You can get quite a noticeable rise very quickly as I got 6+ mm (about 1/3 qt) in 1000 miles, and I don't think I have any defect, because in summer I have no dilution. The key process is the rate of evaporation, not the rate of blow by, which I see as quite high and quite constant, and it can't be changed easily. Even with reasonably short trips, most blow by fuel still evaporates from the oil. It takes really cold trips over some time to slow the evaporation rate to the point of hyper dilution.
 


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etcsthorne

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I'm going to raise the BS flag on Honda having a grip on oil dilution with 2019 models. I have about 7K miles on my Si and I've had the oil changed twice. First time was at 4K in mid-summer (eastern Virginia) and I watched the oil level creep up just a bit until the 7K oil change a few weeks ago....maybe an eight of an inch above full. This time, however..... it's been cold around here and I have about 500 miles on my recent oil change. When I left the dealer I checked the level and it was right at full. I checked it this morning and it's definitely above full and on the wire part of the dipstick where I can't tell exactly how much it's above full.

I'll be making an appointment to get this looked at. I don't believe Honda has this figured out. If some of you with 2019 and later 1.5L could keep a frequent check and chime in, it would be appreciated.

Cheers. Mark
Update: 1500 miles on my oil change and level is definitely about 1/2" high after turning off from full operating temp and letting it sit 5 minutes or so. Making appointment at the dealer. My shortest trips are 10 miles and it gets fully warmed up.
 

z06fun

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Of course, but.... I'm now investigating the apparent effect of significant slowing down or almost stopping oil dilution with under filling of just several millimeters. I've seen this on two occasions when I left the oil under the full mark. Also someone else on the forum saw this.

After removing some oil as I described above, I left it at minus 5 mm. I'll see where it goes from there. The other effect is that it seems like the Mobil1 0w20 Ultimate really invites dilution, while M1 0w30 AFE doesn't.
Any update on the slight under filling? Having less oil will cause it to reach a higher temp on any given trip, but I would think that effect would be small with small amount of under filling you are testing. Let us know what you find.
Don't forget that the thicker 0w30 will tend to seal better and typically allow less gas by the rings in general.

It is interesting to see others here who don't drive in cold climates posting about how picking up large amounts of gas in the oil is not happening and Honda has this fixed. :doh:
Of course Honda wants people to think they have it fixed, but they definitely don't have it fixed, and doing long trips in cold temps have not removed the gas on either of my 10th gen Si's.
 

Design

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It is interesting to see others here who don't drive in cold climates posting about how picking up large amounts of gas in the oil is not happening and Honda has this fixed. :doh:
Of course Honda wants people to think they have it fixed, but they definitely don't have it fixed, and doing long trips in cold temps have not removed the gas on either of my 10th gen Si's.
This is an operational side effect of all direct injection powertrains. It is known and managed by both automotive and oil manufacturers, though Honda's 1.5 seems more sensitive than most.

All DI motors display varying oil levels to a degree. And if left unchecked, could continue to display rising oil levels under the right operational conditions. This is why most modern powertrain maintenance schedules are governed by owner and ambient conditions - not just mileage.
 
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saiko21

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I don't know how you guys are measuring oil levels accurately. I am not sure if my 2019 is affected. I drive around 7 miles one way to work out of which 5miles are highway and my car will reach 75 to 80mph. I am from California and I don't know if it's affected as I can't check oil levels exactly with this orange glossy dipstick
 


Gruber

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Any update on the slight under filling? Having less oil will cause it to reach a higher temp on any given trip, but I would think that effect would be small with small amount of under filling you are testing. Let us know what you find.
Don't forget that the thicker 0w30 will tend to seal better and typically allow less gas by the rings in general.

It is interesting to see others here who don't drive in cold climates posting about how picking up large amounts of gas in the oil is not happening and Honda has this fixed. :doh:
Of course Honda wants people to think they have it fixed, but they definitely don't have it fixed, and doing long trips in cold temps have not removed the gas on either of my 10th gen Si's.
Here is the data: the oil today is at negative 4 mm. So it increased by about one millimeter since November 22, 2019. Between the last oil change on August 23 and November 22, the level increased from zero (the full mark) by 6.5-7 mm. So the radical reduction of the dilution rate with underfilling seems quite clear, and it was observed for the second time.

This time I didn't add any oil after removing some, so it's still pure 0W20. Previously, I removed more used oil and replaced it with 0W30, but left it also below full. Following that, I didn't see any increase at all at that time.

My daily trips have been short this winter, but long enough for the ECT1 to get to the operating temperature. The operating temperature though, with normal cruising around, is only ~174 F in winter. It takes some spirited pulls or longer stop and go periods, or uphill drives to get it above 180 F. I might accelerate quickly at full boost and drive 110 mph on the freeway, with my knock control up from the baseline, warm up the ECT1 to 185 F, only to immediately cool back down to 171 F at the bottom of a longer freeway exit.... It just runs way cool in winter. I remember my minivan V6 going easily over 200 F ECT just by idling in summer (that's when the radiator fans would turn on)....and normally it would remain close to 190 F no matter what...

Of course, I haven't had the Honda "fix" done.
 
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A rough "rule of thumb" for the 1.5L engines.

A rise in oil level from the top mark on the Dipstick, to the top of the orange plastic is about 1/4 Quart. This corresponds to about 5% rise in volume, which is typically considered to be acceptable oil dilution.

Despite what Honda says, I always measure my oil level after the car has been sitting overnight, so the maximum amount of oil has drained back.
This is therefore always a consistent state, and does not vary as much as the levels when the engine has just been run, and the oil is still draining back, with it's flow dependent on oil temperature.

I do my own oil changes, so I can closely control how much new, undiluted oil I put into the car, and at what level that oil is (when cold) after standing for a number of hours,
After the oil change, I carefully adjust that level to be at the Top mark on the orange dipstick (Yes, we all know it;s difficult to read clean oil levels with the Honda Dipshit.

I use AMSOIL -- its a little more expensive, but the engine runs noticeably better on it than the original Honda oil, and the oil reaching the Catch Can is very minimal with the AMSOIL, compared with the original Honda Oil,

5000 miles later, and my oil level is still exactly on the top Orange mark - so I am happy about my particular 2018 Si's Oil dilution characteristics.
BTW . Car is "as factory" in that it has NOT had any Dealer Updates to do Honda's Oil Dilution TSB's

If it ain't broke , don't fix it, and don't let the Dealer break it either !!!
 

SCOPESYS

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I don't know how you guys are measuring oil levels accurately. I am not sure if my 2019 is affected. I drive around 7 miles one way to work out of which 5miles are highway and my car will reach 75 to 80mph. I am from California and I don't know if it's affected as I can't check oil levels exactly with this orange glossy dipstick
Solution: Make the Orange part less Glossy... ( ie with coarse sand paper - wash well after sanding)
 

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Any update on the slight under filling? Having less oil will cause it to reach a higher temp on any given trip, but I would think that effect would be small with small amount of under filling you are testing. Let us know what you find.
Don't forget that the thicker 0w30 will tend to seal better and typically allow less gas by the rings in general.

It is interesting to see others here who don't drive in cold climates posting about how picking up large amounts of gas in the oil is not happening and Honda has this fixed. :doh:
Of course Honda wants people to think they have it fixed, but they definitely don't have it fixed, and doing long trips in cold temps have not removed the gas on either of my 10th gen Si's.
I have used the same type of oil since day 1 which is Quaker State 0w20. I have never filled to the top dot but put in 3.5l and this puts it between the dots. My car has consistently gotten better over time. 1st year the level rose to the point where I drained some out. 2nd year the level only rose in the winter and this year with one of our coldest winters on record, it hasn't rose at all. I still may have a trace amount of dilution but not enough to be concerned or cause the level to rise unlike my wifes Crv which is only 7 months old with higher readings on the dipstick. Only time will tell.
 

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A rough "rule of thumb" for the 1.5L engines.

A rise in oil level from the top mark on the Dipstick, to the top of the orange plastic is about 1/4 Quart. This corresponds to about 5% rise in volume, which is typically considered to be acceptable oil dilution.

Despite what Honda says, I always measure my oil level after the car has been sitting overnight, so the maximum amount of oil has drained back.
This is therefore always a consistent state, and does not vary as much as the levels when the engine has just been run, and the oil is still draining back, with it's flow dependent on oil temperature.

I do my own oil changes, so I can closely control how much new, undiluted oil I put into the car, and at what level that oil is (when cold) after standing for a number of hours,
After the oil change, I carefully adjust that level to be at the Top mark on the orange dipstick (Yes, we all know it;s difficult to read clean oil levels with the Honda Dipshit.

I use AMSOIL -- its a little more expensive, but the engine runs noticeably better on it than the original Honda oil, and the oil reaching the Catch Can is very minimal with the AMSOIL, compared with the original Honda Oil,

5000 miles later, and my oil level is still exactly on the top Orange mark - so I am happy about my particular 2018 Si's Oil dilution characteristics.
BTW . Car is "as factory" in that it has NOT had any Dealer Updates to do Honda's Oil Dilution TSB's

If it ain't broke , don't fix it, and don't let the Dealer break it either !!!
Is your Amsoil 0W20?
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