2018 Type R rear break questions!?

[Type-R_plus]

Hi everyone,

My 2018 R just past 22000 miles and got a new set of all 4 new tires replaced from Firestone. Then, the mechanic shows me the rear set of brake pads are worn out badly and need replacement (photos). The front brake is fine.

The Honda dealer gave me a quote to replace both brake pads for $351.32 and approximately $150 for both rotor services.

Firestone gave me a quote to replace both (after-market) brake pads and replace both (after-market) brake rotors, parts, and labor total is about $500 plus tax. Firestone mechanic mention Type R brake rotors are replaced only!

Questions 1:
Is it normal 22000 miles cause the rear set of brake pads worn out like that? If so, why only the rear set of brake pads only, not the front brake?

Questions 2:
Both Honda dealer and Firestone quoted me about $500 plus tax, the difference is the dealer said to service the rotor, but Firestone said to replace the rotor only. What do you think??

 

[1lastnerve]

It's kind of hard to tell from the pictures, how worn your pads are. But if they're getting down to the replacement stage... then I guess I'll take your (their) word for it.
As far as 22000 miles being premature or not... it all depends on what kind of driving you do, and what kind of driver you are. Brake wear can be counter intuitive, as rear brakes do tend to wear faster than fronts because of brake bias in the system. You get more braking power from the front brakes, but faster wear in the rear.
Rotor service or replacement is a matter of opinion for some. Some people always replace rotors at brake service, some people opt to turn the rotors (place them on a lathe and resurface the rotor) I'd rather service the factory rotors with only 22K miles, than let F'stone replace them with aftermarket rotors. The thing you don't want with rotors is warping, as that will cause pulsation during braking. If they use sub par rotors to replace them, then you are at risk for them to warp.

Finally, all things equal (and cost wise it appears they are) let the Honda dealer do it. He uses OEM parts, and a tech who does Honda brakes all day, every day. The Firestone tech may be fine, but I'd place my money with the Honda tech.

 

[racer01]

I'd go with option "C". OEM pads are $100. https://www.kseriesparts.com/HON-43022-TGH-A01.html

I'd find someone you can trust to install them. It is literally a 30 min job. Those rear rotors look perfect, and no reason to touch them if going back with the same pad material. If they had more mileage I'd measure them for min thickness in my garage, but no way they are thin with 22k road miles. Firestone probably has a note in their computer to not turn them as the fronts are drilled and you should not turn or resurface the fronts.

To actually answer your questions I most definitely would not go aftermarket firestone pads/rotors and would go to the dealer instead for the same price but for $500 just know you are likely paying $400 in labor.

Also to answer your first question yes it is "normal" to have the wear you are seeing these days although you'd rarely seen rear brakes wearing first that many years ago. Now that we have ubiquitous ABS and interesting (more rearward biased) brake proportioning some cars will wear rears faster than fronts. Our Mazda 3 went through 3 sets of rears for one front set and my mother-in-law's accord ate rears first. The CTR has huge front brakes by comparison to rear and likely thicker starting pad thickness.

Just FYI, Rockauto.com has centric rotors for $22 ea and a set of rear centric pads for $15 and you can bet Firestone won't use anything much better than that for replacement and worse yet you probably won't even know what they used.
Also just for FYI I'd personally take a good look at the inner pad and if it had as much meat left on it I'd bide my time for a few weeks and find a better deal on labor on perhaps an independent Honda or foreign car shop. They need to be changed sometime soon, but that thickness in the pic doesn't give me any pause that you are going to hit squeal bars or damage the rotors by going down to the backing plate imminently (but check the inner pads as they sometimes wear quicker on single piston calipers)!

 

[haltamer]

Grab OE pads and just change the pads. - The disc is fine.

Here in the UK Machining discs with a pad change is mostly unheard of, and provided you follow the standard break-in procedure would be perfectly fine, as the disc is clearly in good condition with no scoring, lipping etc.

My rear pads were done after 15000 miles; It is perfectly normal, as the rear brake pads start off much thinner than fronts, and are used by the VSA / Agile handling assist system to aid turn in.

If you're comfortable doing your own work, the rear brake pad change isn't too difficult with an Autel AP200 to retract the EPB - If not, a trusted independant garage with appropriate gear should be able to change them for an hour or two at most of labour.

 

[1lastnerve]

I'd go with option "C". OEM pads are $100. https://www.kseriesparts.com/HON-43022-TGH-A01.html

I'd find someone you can trust to install them. It is literally a 30 min job. Those rear rotors look perfect, ....

Grab OE pads and just change the pads. - The disc is fine.

...If you're comfortable doing your own work, the rear brake pad change isn't too difficult with an Autel AP200 to retract the EPB - If not, a trusted independant garage with appropriate gear should be able to change them for an hour or two at most of labour.

I agree with both of these guys, but from your post & questions I didn't get the feeling you were much of a DIY'r. Hence, the advice to go to the mechanic, and racer01 stated you don't have any idea what the Firestone guy is installing on your car... so there's that.

But if you did want to tackle changing the pads, it really isn't difficult at all. There are tons of YouTube videos if you need some guidance. And yeah, the rotors are fine, don't worry about them.

 

[Type-R_plus]

Thank you all!

I decided to purchase the rear brake pad set from the local Honda dealership today and pick up the parts tomorrow morning. Then I can change it myself which I can save a few hundred dollars.

One other thing I learned was the prices. Yesterday, the Honda dealer service advisor quote for the parts was $137.97. Then, I saw (1lastnerve) show me the brake pad set sell $98.83 online. Today, I went to the Honda dealer parts department to buy the parts, the staff charges me $109.41. I did not know the service advisor will overcharge the customer for the same parts they sell at the parts department.

 

[garoto]

I seem to be having excessive rear of wear. First set at 25k along with my fronts. Second set 10k later but the fronts are still fine.

Is this a normal Type R thing? Seems rather off to me.

 

[tinyman392]

I seem to be having excessive rear of wear. First set at 25k along with my fronts. Second set 10k later but the fronts are still fine.

Is this a normal Type R thing? Seems rather off to me.

Rears tend to go before the fronts in the Type R due to the VSS.

 

[garoto]

Rears tend to go before the fronts in the Type R due to the VSS.

What’s the relationship between the VSS and the rear pads wearing?

 

[StanMan]

What’s the relationship between the VSS and the rear pads wearing?

CTR applies the brakes to the rear wheels during spirited driving/cornering(it will try to spin on you without this). 100% normal for the rears to wear out way sooner than the front if you're driving your CTR the way it's meant to be driven somewhat routinely.

 

[garoto]

CTR applies the brakes to the rear wheels during spirited driving/cornering(it will try to spin on you without this). 100% normal for the rears to wear out way sooner than the front if you're driving your CTR the way it's mean to be driven somewhat routinely.

If you’re referring to agile driving assist, it applies them to the front as per the manual, not the rear.

 

[tinyman392]

If you’re referring to agile driving assist, it applies them to the front as per the manual, not the rear.

Technically Type R's torque vectoring will apply it to all 4 as needed. The front's also have the LSD to help with the front end as well. All that said, the front pads are more aggressive so they'll wear less than the rears will as the car's torque vectoring kicks in.

 

[Gansan]

in the Agile Handling Assist whitepaper, the brake pressure arrows in this diagram show the rears have heavier braking than the front.

I think also that any asymmetric braking at the front wheels would be felt as weird momentary torque steer. This alone would be a good reason to lean more on the rears.

 

[garoto]

in the Agile Handling Assist whitepaper, the brake pressure arrows in this diagram show the rears have heavier braking than the front.

I think also that any asymmetric braking at the front wheels would be felt as weird momentary torque steer. This alone would be a good reason to lean more on the rears.

Where did you get this? Can you share more on the white paper. Would like to read it.

where are you seeing more braking on the rear? It only mentions inner or other wheel but it doesn’t say front or rear.

 

[Gansan]

Where did you get this? Can you share more on the white paper. Would like to read it.

where are you seeing more braking on the rear? It only mentions inner or other wheel but it doesn’t say front or rear.

The PDF is here
https://www.hondarandd.jp/point.php?pid=996&lang=en

You need to create an account to access research papers.

You’re right in that they don’t spell out in text which wheels get the main braking. I’m inferring this from the size of the arrows in the diagram which indicate brake pressure. See the lower left diagram where the big arrows on the rear wheels show high braking compared to the front.

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