2018 GTI - 242HP!

[takemorepills]

The base Civic 1.5l turbo is putting down 179 hp at the wheels, that equates to 210 crank hp give or take. I'm basing that off Hondata's numbers with a 15 percent drivetrain loss. I think the Civic's 1.5 l turbo is underrated, I've had a couple of turbo Dodges in past years and this Civic feels stronger than the advertised power numbers IMO. With the conservative Hondata ecu mod it will net almost 244 crank hp (207 whp). Not too far off the GTI numbers. People will like one or the other , VW guys will never like the Civic, and many Civic owners won't like the VW.

There's many Honda fans who currently own GTI's/R's over on the VW forums. They/we are mostly open to coming back to Honda when/if Honda makes an appropriate sport compact again.

Sponsored

 

[VarmintCong]

According to Intellichoice/MotorTrend, Golf(GTI) retained value is 54% after 5 years. Civic is 53%.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2017-new-cars-ultimate-buyers-guide/#volkswagen

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2017-new-cars-ultimate-buyers-guide/#honda

From all the reading on VWvortex, the cars lose close to 50% the first year. Guys complaining about trying to trade after one year and being offered $15k below MSRP. I dont beleive those resale articles, from owning BMWs i know their estimates were crap.

In 4 years I'll have 100k miles and nobody will want a GTI with 100k miles.

 

[VarmintCong]

The base Civic 1.5l turbo is putting down 179 hp at the wheels, that equates to 210 crank hp give or take. I'm basing that off Hondata's numbers with a 15 percent drivetrain loss. I think the Civic's 1.5 l turbo is underrated, I've had a couple of turbo Dodges in past years and this Civic feels stronger than the advertised power numbers IMO. With the conservative Hondata ecu mod it will net almost 244 crank hp (207 whp). Not too far off the GTI numbers. People will like one or the other , VW guys will never like the Civic, and many Civic owners won't like the VW.

I drove the 2016 GTI three times, and the power doesnt feel that different from my Sport, or my 330i. GTI has less turbo lag maybe, and neither is as responsive as my 330i of course. GTI clutch and steering are better, the Civic is way too light and of course the rev hang sucks. I think the Sport eliminates torque steer and wheel spin with wide low profile tires. The GTI does it with the LSD, which is awesome.

 

[MickeyDubs]

I drove the 2016 GTI three times, and the power doesnt feel that different from my Sport, or my 330i. GTI has less turbo lag maybe, and neither is as responsive as my 330i of course. GTI clutch and steering are better, the Civic is way too light and of course the rev hang sucks. I think the Sport eliminates torque steer and wheel spin with wide low profile tires. The GTI does it with the LSD, which is awesome.

To me- Honda doesn't have a car in the bracket I'm looking for. I'm considering spending 40k on a Golf-R. The reliability trend is a hold back for sure as VW doesn't have a great rap to it's name. However, this would be a new car, and I know how to take care of my vehicles.

The Golf-R doesn't look like a high schoolers wet dream. Even the Hatchback sport just looks to young for me. As a 30 year old professional I'm not looking for a JDM look alike. But I still want sporty and power. I'm considering Infiniti/BMW/Acura but nothing is really calling to me as much as the Golf-R. The CTR looks way to over the top, the WRX/STI don't have the comfort for a DD, the Ford Focus is lacking fit and finish...

AWD, performance (6spd), and comfort aren't that easy to come by....

 

[VarmintCong]

The only problem with the Golf R is the GTI is very similar and like $10k cheaper, thanks to the hefty discounts.

 

[Vtak Groceries]

The only problem with the Golf R is the GTI is very similar and like $10k cheaper, thanks to the hefty discounts.

Not in Canada.

My R was cheaper than a fully loaded GTI. And I got DSG, Navi, adaptive suspension ect ect.

 

[MickeyDubs]

The only problem with the Golf R is the GTI is very similar and like $10k cheaper, thanks to the hefty discounts.

220 vs 295 HP, AWD vs FWD, DCC, and other smaller adjustments. Performance+Autobahn here is 34k, and there's only 1-2k wiggle there. So 6k-8k more expensive.

AWD is the big one for me.

 

[takemorepills]

From all the reading on VWvortex, the cars lose close to 50% the first year. Guys complaining about trying to trade after one year and being offered $15k below MSRP. I dont beleive those resale articles, from owning BMWs i know their estimates were crap.

In 4 years I'll have 100k miles and nobody will want a GTI with 100k miles.

I have owned cars that have astoundingly great resale value. I also have a Nissan Titan and along with my GTI, I would never consider trading in either vehicle, dealers actually DO pay more for certain Toyotas, Hondas and Subarus. They (dealers) will go to auctions and darn near pay full street prices for those cars at the auction.

But, we NEVER trade in our cars. Great way to loose THOUSANDS just for the sake of "convenience". Trading in cars makes about as much sense as living off of credit cards. Our last lease car, an Impreza, I sold at lease end on CL. We ended up with $1500 in equity after paying it off through Subaru.

I leased my VW because it may not be worth much in 3 years, and I can just leave it at the dealer if I don't want it anymore.

But, the new Si is weaksauce, I doubt I'll be leaving VW any time soon. If my GTI ever breaks down, I may change my mind.

And, why do people try to "rationalize" the "value" of cars by considering something as irrational as "trade-in? Or, past reliability of a brand? If we all used that method, we should all be driving base model Corollas.

 

[takemorepills]

I drove the 2016 GTI three times, and the power doesnt feel that different from my Sport, or my 330i. GTI has less turbo lag maybe, and neither is as responsive as my 330i of course. GTI clutch and steering are better, the Civic is way too light and of course the rev hang sucks. I think the Sport eliminates torque steer and wheel spin with wide low profile tires. The GTI does it with the LSD, which is awesome.

Man, your "butt-dyno" must be way out of cal. The GTI has about 7-8 more MPH at end of 1/4 mile, which is equivalent to about 7-8 bus lengths.

My Titan is about as fast as my co-workers new EX-T sedan, both by my butt-dyno and published track times. And going from my Titan to my GTI, which I do switch between all the time, is a huge difference.

Don't get me wrong, the 1.5T is commendable and I would be perfectly content to drive it on a regular basis, but it is no where close to a GTI.

I have also driven the BMW 330i many times, and agree that it is nice to have a strong NA motor. Sometimes the GTI will go into "Corolla" mode and be a dog, starts off in 2nd and keeps the boost low. And, BTW, my GTI doesn't have LSD nor does it have torque steer. It is just a well engineered vehicle.

 

[VarmintCong]

I have owned cars that have astoundingly great resale value. I also have a Nissan Titan and along with my GTI, I would never consider trading in either vehicle, dealers actually DO pay more for certain Toyotas, Hondas and Subarus. They (dealers) will go to auctions and darn near pay full street prices for those cars at the auction.

But, we NEVER trade in our cars. Great way to loose THOUSANDS just for the sake of "convenience". Trading in cars makes about as much sense as living off of credit cards. Our last lease car, an Impreza, I sold at lease end on CL. We ended up with $1500 in equity after paying it off through Subaru.

I leased my VW because it may not be worth much in 3 years, and I can just leave it at the dealer if I don't want it anymore.

But, the new Si is weaksauce, I doubt I'll be leaving VW any time soon. If my GTI ever breaks down, I may change my mind.

And, why do people try to "rationalize" the "value" of cars by considering something as irrational as "trade-in? Or, past reliability of a brand? If we all used that method, we should all be driving base model Corollas.

If trade-in is low, private resale is gonna be low. It's not like privately selling a 4 year old GTI with 100k miles is gonna be a pleasant experience.

If you don't consider resale, that's like saying you don't consider the cost of a vehicle. Sure, if you keep it 10 years it doesn't matter much. I kept my 330i for 11 years and sold it for $5k, so I didn't care about resale. But now I drive a lot more so a German car isn't ideal.

 

[VarmintCong]

Man, your "butt-dyno" must be way out of cal. The GTI has about 7-8 more MPH at end of 1/4 mile, which is equivalent to about 7-8 bus lengths.

My Titan is about as fast as my co-workers new EX-T sedan, both by my butt-dyno and published track times. And going from my Titan to my GTI, which I do switch between all the time, is a huge difference.

Don't get me wrong, the 1.5T is commendable and I would be perfectly content to drive it on a regular basis, but it is no where close to a GTI.

I have also driven the BMW 330i many times, and agree that it is nice to have a strong NA motor. Sometimes the GTI will go into "Corolla" mode and be a dog, starts off in 2nd and keeps the boost low. And, BTW, my GTI doesn't have LSD nor does it have torque steer. It is just a well engineered vehicle.

I haven't seen any 1/4 times for my 6MT Sport.

I think all 3 GTI's I drove had the LSD. I mainly wanted it for snow and maybe wet, I hate FWD wheel spin.

My Sport doesn't really have torque steer with the 18" 235s, but when I put the snow tires on, it sure does!

 

[takemorepills]

I haven't seen any 1/4 times for my 6MT Sport.

I think all 3 GTI's I drove had the LSD. I mainly wanted it for snow and maybe wet, I hate FWD wheel spin.

My Sport doesn't really have torque steer with the 18" 235s, but when I put the snow tires on, it sure does!

The 6MT hatch will be well behind a GTI.

Regarding the "LSD" on the GTI, it is more akin to the Prelude ATTS from the 5th Gen Prelude. The GTI PP diff is more for improving at-the-limit handling and feel. There's a few videos online of PP vs non-PP GTIs and they all peel out the same, with both cars being in a dead tie and sometimes the non-PP actually edging out the PP car.
That being said, I do believe the 2.0T in the GTI is too powerful for FWD. I can't see how a 300+HP CTR is gonna be any better.

 

[takemorepills]

If trade-in is low, private resale is gonna be low. It's not like privately selling a 4 year old GTI with 100k miles is gonna be a pleasant experience.

If you don't consider resale, that's like saying you don't consider the cost of a vehicle. Sure, if you keep it 10 years it doesn't matter much. I kept my 330i for 11 years and sold it for $5k, so I didn't care about resale. But now I drive a lot more so a German car isn't ideal.

All cars depreciate. German vs. Japanese is always a trade-off. Really if you cared about ultimate resale value, depending on where you live it could be a Corolla or Subaru that would have better resale value than your Civic. You should just buy one of those?

 

[VarmintCong]

All cars depreciate. German vs. Japanese is always a trade-off. Really if you cared about ultimate resale value, depending on where you live it could be a Corolla or Subaru that would have better resale value than your Civic. You should just buy one of those?

So i can only care about one aspect of a car? There are many factors in choosing a car.

In fact the main reason I didn't choose the GTI is the short trunk doesn't fit my needs very well (I have 2 car seats so can't fold the seats, and have a lot of work bags/boxes that I can't stack up).

The Alltrack fits me better but it's too expensive if you want the sport seats.

 

[VarmintCong]

The 6MT hatch will be well behind a GTI.

Regarding the "LSD" on the GTI, it is more akin to the Prelude ATTS from the 5th Gen Prelude. The GTI PP diff is more for improving at-the-limit handling and feel. There's a few videos online of PP vs non-PP GTIs and they all peel out the same, with both cars being in a dead tie and sometimes the non-PP actually edging out the PP car.
That being said, I do believe the 2.0T in the GTI is too powerful for FWD. I can't see how a 300+HP CTR is gonna be any better.

If VW cared about at the limit performance in the GTI they'd make stability control defeatable. (not disagreeing just complaining)

Sponsored