2017 Civic SI vs 2017 Civic Sport Hatch (6MT)

Shadoq

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Hey everyone.

Bottom line up front:

Did anyone test/cross shop a GenX Civic SI with a GenX Civic Hatch?
Optimally comparing the 6MT Sport Hatch with a 6MT SI.

If so, why did you go with one over the other?

Is there any real "felt difference" in the power and handling between the 2?
-From reading I've done, both are underrated on power, hatch more so it seems.
-Most reviewers noted little difference between Normal and Sport Modes on the SI.

Is anyone actively working on/developing a different exhaust for the SI?
-The styling of the factory one is nice enough but I'd rather have a dual pipe a la the Hatch sport. -Most reviewers noted how quiet the SI is.
-I'd like to hear my car, granted without waking up the entire neighborhood's population of small children, ducks, and squirrels


The long version:

I'm in the market for a new car.
I currently own a 2016 Ford FiST w/ Recaros, Nav, blah blah(didn't want all the whiz bangs beyond the Recaros but that is what the dealer had...). Nothing wrong with the car, enjoy driving it every day.
I am getting custody of my 2 little people (one is 2 years, one is 9 months) sooner rather than later. Unfortunately both car seats will not fit SAFELY(will fit, just not comfortable with how cramped it is for them) in the back seat with where my driver seat needs to be(I'm 6' 2 ish and 200+). So we're off to a different car.

-No Minivans(Just hell no)
-No automatic transmission(last Auto I owned I almost fell asleep at the wheel on the way to work and put it in a ditch).
-No trucks(bad rear seat kid seat hookups, autos only in my price range with lots of miles)
-No SUVs(all the manual SUVs are gutless IMHO, why no new Manual Turbo Forester XT Subaru?)

Want:
-Sporty or Sports Car
-22-28K price
-Manual
-Turbo or responsive NA
-Must carry 2 little people, one stroller, and a little more cargo on average day

What I've looked at:
-Mazda 3-Back Seat too small
-Focus ST-Not enough rear space with my seat back. MPG bad as AWD w/o AWD benefits.
-Elantra Sport-Hyundai Re-sell value or lack there of.
-MazdaSpeed 3- Most on the market are modded/high mileage. Back seat smaller.
-VW GTI-Like it. Concerned about enough cargo room and maintenance costs.
-Subaru WRX(15'+)-Like it. Miss my STIs. Concerned about enough cargo room in trunk.
-CivicX Hatch Sport-Like it. No Moon Roof makes me sad
-CivicX SI-Like it. Haven't been able to see one/test drive one in person. Wonder if trunk is big enough?




Would appreciate any help anyone can provide!
Thanks!
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batman900

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I could of had either, went with hatch for the utility and looks. Just like 360glitch, I just want the LSD from the Si, everything else is take it or leave it. I'll be adding a bigger rear sway and tune, done. With kid's seats, my 2 year old fits behind me just fine and I'm 6ft tall. If Honda would of made an Si hatch I would have been all over it. Heck I filled the back with car ramps, a large jack, a big box full of misc car cleaning stuff, couple tool boxes and a few bags of everything needed from Autozone for a nice tune up on my grama's Accord with room to spare today. It's like having the utility of a crossover with the mpg of a prius and power of an Si. Love this car so far.

For record, I had a 12 Si, 15 Si, 15 WRX and 16 WRX. The Subaru's were both lemons especially the 15!!!!! 16 wasn't as bad but had a major safety issue that the dealer couldn't figure out, almost got T-boned a few times because it would randomly not accelerate when very hot outside with the AC on, yes it was stock and there's a thread on this issue on Nasioc forums. Not to mention super cheap interior, noise, terrible mpg and weak power after 4k rpm. The hatch is every bit as good as either older Si. Handling is on par with them except when I put HFP suspension on the 12, power is as good or better. It's like luxury compared the the Subarus, can't compare with handling but isn't super far away power wise.

Either will be a great choice for you but I loveeee utility. With all the cars I've owned, I don't plan to sell/trade this one until at least the next generation is released.

Edit: All 4 of my previous mentioned cars were MT but the hatch is indeed Auto. Got some blood clot issues in my legs. Either way, basically all newer Honda manuals are butter.
 
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Shadoq

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For record, I had a 12 Si, 15 Si, 15 WRX and 16 WRX. The Subaru's were both lemons especially the 15!!!!! 16 wasn't as bad but had a major safety issue that the dealer couldn't figure out, almost got T-boned a few times because it would randomly not accelerate when very hot outside with the AC on, yes it was stock and there's a thread on this issue on Nasioc forums. Not to mention super cheap interior, noise, terrible mpg and weak power after 4k rpm. The hatch is every bit as good as either older Si. Handling is on par with them except when I put HFP suspension on the 12, power is as good or better. It's like luxury compared the the Subarus, can't compare with handling but isn't super far away power wise.

Either will be a great choice for you but I loveeee utility. With all the cars I've owned, I don't plan to sell/trade this one until at least the next generation is released.

Edit: All 4 of my previous mentioned cars were MT but the hatch is indeed Auto. Got some blood clot issues in my legs. Either way, basically all newer Honda manuals are butter.
Thanks for the replies!
Yeah if there had been a SI Hatch, it would have been once and done.
And sadly the Type R is just too much money for me especially with the BS dealer ADMs.

I know this is insanely subjective, how much more powerful did the WRX feel to you versus your Civic Hatch?
From the dynos I've seen there doesn't seem to be too much difference between the actual WHP of the Civic and WRX....
Plus the Civic is hundreds of pounds lighter....

How bad was your MPG on the WRX?
I had a '15 STI Launch(miss the blue and gold...) so I know all about MPG being bad in Subies...

I miss the sound of my STI.

Yeah she was crude and rude but she was Subaru and STI to the bone especially with the SPT quad exhaust.

If I go with either Civic it will have to have a new exhaust.
 

batman900

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I know stock for stock on a dyno, the wrx has like ~25hp / ~30tq peak at the wheels over my hatch but weighs around 300lbs more. For a completely subjective feel, the surge in power around 2500-3500 in the wrx is the only place where it "feels" faster than the civic. The wrx power band dies badly at around 4k-4500 and after that it feels the same or dare I say even slower the closer it gets to redline. If I had an Si or tune, the difference would probably be un-noticeable.

Mpg wise, in constant city driving I got 15-18, mixed with mostly highway I would get 21-23. I do also miss the sound of the exhaust even though my wrx's didn't have un-equal length headers like your STI did, I also got tons of attention from it, people would always ask me about it at gas stations which was cool. With how low the weight was and awd in those cars it felt amazing when playing in the corners or on a dirt road, this is the only spot I don't think CivicX can match minus maybe the R. But I'd never trade a reliable daily driver for that occasional fun. I also don't baby this civic & have gotten 36-38 mpg average with mixed mostly hwy driving.
 


360glitch

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2014 WRX previous owner here. I was putting down about 305/345 after mods, the car was a good bit quicker than my Civic currently is. I'm hoping a future turbo upgrade will help remedy that. Other than power (and AWD) the Civic is a better daily drive in every way. I too do miss the exhaust note though.
 

Branch

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I moved on the HB Sport after the official release of specs and pictures on the Si. I really liked the looks of the HB and utility even if the Si is probably the better overall package. HB 6MT may be a little harder to find then an Si now. All options are good but come with compromises. Like others, too bad no Si version of HB.
 

exyia

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Hey everyone.

Bottom line up front:

Did anyone test/cross shop a GenX Civic SI with a GenX Civic Hatch?
Optimally comparing the 6MT Sport Hatch with a 6MT SI.

If so, why did you go with one over the other?
I have:
http://www.civicx.com/threads/lacking-character-my-long-si-review.11859/

And to add more context for your comparison, I have driven a manual hatch as well.

My main points of thought/input:
- Try a Sport Touring for Honda Sensing or any Civic that has one equipped (get a salesperson who knows how it works and help you get a feel for it). As great as the CVT is in this Civic, comparing CVT vs Manual is really no different than any other time. The more interesting comparison is being able to get modern driving aid tech vs none. People don't think they're a big deal, but I just had to sit through 3 hours of traffic this past weekend (stupid construction) and I can't emphasize how much it changes the tedium of everyday commuting. You have two kids coming - this car needs to be more car everyday, not just more sports car.

- The sport trim feels very spartan. It's very oriented towards a return to roots of "simple fun" of Hondas past. Some might see this as a great canvas to tinker with though (the OEM touch screen on higher trims isn't perfect)

- Exhaust is stupid silent on both models.

- Remember that a lot of dealerships might have been cheap/ignorant and put 87 octane in your car that you test drove
 

xcoreflyup

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The Manual car is quite uncommon. not impossible, but I am pretty sure it will require a period of searching.
 

UberCivic

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The comparison in utility isn't a straight up win for the hatch as you might think, there are some tradeoffs. The hatch does have the utility edge when loading large objects like TV's and bikes which may not fit through the sedan's trunk opening, and also when loaded to the gills it just flat out has more space. The sedan has a larger and more useful trunk without loading the hatch up to the roof and blocking the rear window though. The sedan also has four inches more total length with the seats down so you can lay longer lengths of wood or ladders and such back there that wouldn't fit in the hatch. The hatch also has slightly less rear seat leg room which may be a concern since your kids will be back there. I know that my infant car seat is super long and would make me push the front seat forward an inch in the hatch because it's right up against the back of the seat now, and I also barely fit a seven foot ladder in with the seats folded that would not have fit in the hatch without bungeeing the trunk. I also don't like to have all of my cargo exposed all of the time and prefer a closed trunk.
 


VarmintCong

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I know stock for stock on a dyno, the wrx has like ~25hp / ~30tq peak at the wheels over my hatch but weighs around 300lbs more. For a completely subjective feel, the surge in power around 2500-3500 in the wrx is the only place where it "feels" faster than the civic. The wrx power band dies badly at around 4k-4500 and after that it feels the same or dare I say even slower the closer it gets to redline. If I had an Si or tune, the difference would probably be un-noticeable.

Mpg wise, in constant city driving I got 15-18, mixed with mostly highway I would get 21-23. I do also miss the sound of the exhaust even though my wrx's didn't have un-equal length headers like your STI did, I also got tons of attention from it, people would always ask me about it at gas stations which was cool. With how low the weight was and awd in those cars it felt amazing when playing in the corners or on a dirt road, this is the only spot I don't think CivicX can match minus maybe the R. But I'd never trade a reliable daily driver for that occasional fun. I also don't baby this civic & have gotten 36-38 mpg average with mixed mostly hwy driving.
I test drove WRXs like four times, and I agree, my hatch 6MT feels pretty similar in power, and doesn't have that disappointing fall off the cliff the WRX has above 4500. WRX sounds much better - the Civic is not bad, it sounds 'sporty' I guess, but it's not a sound that puts a smile on your face like the WRX.

Also the 6MT Sport is VERY dependent on ambient air temps, fuel (87 vs 93) etc in power delivery and mpg. So it feels slower to me now in the summer without that dense cold air to fill the turbo.

But like batman said, you simply cannot beat the 5 door practicality, the fun, and the 40 mpg. It blows away competition like the Subaru Impreza, which feels so slow in comparison.
 

procivic

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We'll have a very detailed review of our new 2017 Si sedan up and viewable soon on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ProCivicVideo

We go over all the details on the new Si and how it is different than the EXT sedan (base). This might help you decide on the hatchback sport vs the Si.
 

maaaaackle

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- The sport trim feels very spartan. It's very oriented towards a return to roots of "simple fun" of Hondas past. Some might see this as a great canvas to tinker with though (the OEM touch screen on higher trims isn't perfect)
The spartan interior definitely isnt for everyone though and I do wish I had a sunroof...like really badly. But you're spot on with the whole "canvas" point.

I love modding my cars. Modding a Type R would be sacrilege and I don't even think I could bring myself to do it. They don't have an Si trim in the Hatch...so the Sport with the manual was my only option. And while I do see that it has the charm of a modern day "old civic", the spartan interior can really be a bore.
 

Froz3nTundra

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The spartan interior definitely isnt for everyone though and I do wish I had a sunroof...like really badly. But you're spot on with the whole "canvas" point.

I love modding my cars. Modding a Type R would be sacrilege and I don't even think I could bring myself to do it. They don't have an Si trim in the Hatch...so the Sport with the manual was my only option. And while I do see that it has the charm of a modern day "old civic", the spartan interior can really be a bore.
Agreed, I love the drive on my sport hatch but the interior needed a lot of work. I'm getting it to where I don't want to trade it now between seat covers, leather trim and the soon to be upgraded stereo.

Oh and OP, the biggest difference is one of those cars you can find, one you can't.
 

StickShiftMyButt

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Hey everyone.

Bottom line up front:

Did anyone test/cross shop a GenX Civic SI with a GenX Civic Hatch?
Optimally comparing the 6MT Sport Hatch with a 6MT SI.

If so, why did you go with one over the other?

Is there any real "felt difference" in the power and handling between the 2?
-From reading I've done, both are underrated on power, hatch more so it seems.
-Most reviewers noted little difference between Normal and Sport Modes on the SI.

Is anyone actively working on/developing a different exhaust for the SI?
-The styling of the factory one is nice enough but I'd rather have a dual pipe a la the Hatch sport. -Most reviewers noted how quiet the SI is.
-I'd like to hear my car, granted without waking up the entire neighborhood's population of small children, ducks, and squirrels


The long version:

I'm in the market for a new car.
I currently own a 2016 Ford FiST w/ Recaros, Nav, blah blah(didn't want all the whiz bangs beyond the Recaros but that is what the dealer had...). Nothing wrong with the car, enjoy driving it every day.
I am getting custody of my 2 little people (one is 2 years, one is 9 months) sooner rather than later. Unfortunately both car seats will not fit SAFELY(will fit, just not comfortable with how cramped it is for them) in the back seat with where my driver seat needs to be(I'm 6' 2 ish and 200+). So we're off to a different car.

-No Minivans(Just hell no)
-No automatic transmission(last Auto I owned I almost fell asleep at the wheel on the way to work and put it in a ditch).
-No trucks(bad rear seat kid seat hookups, autos only in my price range with lots of miles)
-No SUVs(all the manual SUVs are gutless IMHO, why no new Manual Turbo Forester XT Subaru?)

Want:
-Sporty or Sports Car
-22-28K price
-Manual
-Turbo or responsive NA
-Must carry 2 little people, one stroller, and a little more cargo on average day

What I've looked at:
-Mazda 3-Back Seat too small
-Focus ST-Not enough rear space with my seat back. MPG bad as AWD w/o AWD benefits.
-Elantra Sport-Hyundai Re-sell value or lack there of.
-MazdaSpeed 3- Most on the market are modded/high mileage. Back seat smaller.
-VW GTI-Like it. Concerned about enough cargo room and maintenance costs.
-Subaru WRX(15'+)-Like it. Miss my STIs. Concerned about enough cargo room in trunk.
-CivicX Hatch Sport-Like it. No Moon Roof makes me sad
-CivicX SI-Like it. Haven't been able to see one/test drive one in person. Wonder if trunk is big enough?




Would appreciate any help anyone can provide!
Thanks!
i have both the 2017 hatch and the 2017 Si sedan. of course, trunk space is outstanding in the hatch, but overall interior space and trunk space is fantastic in the sedan as well.
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