2017 & 2018 Owners, what would make you switch to a 2019 Type R?

[leehom]

I'm not sure why so many people are skeptical about Honda updating the CTR with the 2019 MMC Civic. The ITR was released in 97 when the Integra DC2 was initially released in 1994. In 98 Honda updated the Integra and the ITR with it. That's one model year the ITR was released before it got an MMC.

I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong, but it logistically makes zero sense to keep the CTR different from the rest of the line up. Some people want to dismiss the MMC upgrades as very minor should look at the S2000 changes from MMC. The CTR might not get as many updates as the S2000 did, but we will get some noticeable ones.

Second generation (known as "AP2" and in Europe as "AP1 facelift" - 2004–2009)

The 2004 model S2000 underwent several significant changes. Production moved to Suzuka. The new model introduced 17 in (43 cm) wheels and Bridgestone RE-050 tires along with a retuned suspension to reduce oversteer. The spring rates and shock absorber damping were altered and the suspension geometry modified to improve stability by reducing toe-in changes under cornering loads. The subframe also received a revision in design to achieve a high rigidity. In the gearbox the brass synchronizers were replaced with carbon fiber. In addition, cosmetic changes were made to the exterior with new front and rear bumpers, revised headlight assemblies, new LED tail-lights, and oval-tipped exhausts. Although all the cosmetic, suspension and most drivetrain upgrades were included on the Japanese, Australian and European S2000s, they retained the 2.0l F20C engines and remained designated as AP1s.
2005 Honda S2000
For the North American market the updates also included the introduction of a larger version of the F20C (F22C1), this larger engine gave the chassis designation AP2. F22C1, the engine's stroke was lengthened, increasing its displacement to 2,157 cc (132 cu in). At the same time, the redline and fuel cutoff were reduced from 8,800 rpm and 9,000 rpm to 8,000 rpm and 8,200 rpm respectively, mandated by the longer travel of the pistons. Peak torque increased 6% to 220 N⋅m (160 lbf⋅ft) at 6,800 rpm while power output remained unchanged, 177 kW (237 hp) at a lower 7,800 rpm. In conjunction with its introduction of the F22C1, Honda also changed the transmission gear ratios by shortening the first five gears and lengthening the sixth.[10]

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[Driveitlikeuboughtit]

I'm not sure why so many people are skeptical about Honda updating the CTR with the 2019 MMC Civic. The ITR was released in 97 when the Integra DC2 was initially released in 1994. In 98 Honda updated the Integra and the ITR with it. That's one model year the ITR was released before it got an MMC.

I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong, but it logistically makes zero sense to keep the CTR different from the rest of the line up. Some people want to dismiss the MMC upgrades as very minor should look at the S2000 changes from MMC. The CTR might not get as many updates as the S2000 did, but we will get some noticeable ones.

You need to compare apples to apples. You've provided no context, just when refreshes happened. I'll provide context.

S2000 was first produced in 1999. Yeah, after 5 years it got a "refresh."

ITR was released in the US in '97. It was released in Japan in '95. The refresh happened after 3 years of being on the JDM market.

CTR was released in 2017. The US got it just as early as everyone else. A hugely popular design being refreshed heavily after 2 years would be unprecedented. I can see minor tweaks happening, but nothing drastic like rev limiter change, etc. I could also see hatches and coupe/sedan being on different refresh cycles, because the Hatchback itself didn't get here until 2017 also.

 

[moonman]

Why are you always talking about AWD?
Remember the "Type R Spirit", it began with the NSX-R in the early 90s but got really going with the first Civic Type R in 1997. Small, light, simple, quick, affordable, big wing. That's the key.
There will never be a Civic Type R with AWD, automatic, leather seats but without a wing. Type R equals front wheel drive, 6-speed manual, alcantara seats and a big wing. It's a driver's car.
If there were no new strict emission regulations, we would still drive a high revving screaming NA engine. Because that's Type R as well.

The refresh may get a new bumper, some interior changes but of course no AWD. That would create a whole new/different car.

 

[leehom]

CTR was released in 2017. The US got it just as early as everyone else. A hugely popular design being refreshed heavily after 2 years would be unprecedented. I can see minor tweaks happening, but nothing drastic like rev limiter change, etc. I could also see hatches and coupe/sedan being on different refresh cycles, because the Hatchback itself didn't get here until 2017 also.

Noted. What you're saying is if the 2019 gets a MMC, then the rest of the world will get it because the vehicle was released at the same time worldwide. When you put it in that perspective, it does make sense. My only rebuttal is the 9th generation civic received an MMC after two years.

The production version of the ninth-generation Civic (previewed by the concept) went on sale in the U.S. on 20 April 2011.[14]In late 2012, Honda updated its Civic model with new exterior and interior trims for the 2013 year.[15]

 

[iLovePho]

Why are you always talking about AWD?
Remember the "Type R Spirit", it began with the NSX-R in the early 90s but got really going with the first Civic Type R in 1997. Small, light, simple, quick, affordable, big wing. That's the key.
There will never be a Civic Type R with AWD, automatic, leather seats but without a wing. Type R equals front wheel drive, 6-speed manual, alcantara seats and a big wing. It's a driver's car.
If there were no new strict emission regulations, we would still drive a high revving screaming NA engine. Because that's Type R as well.

The refresh may get a new bumper, some interior changes but of course no AWD. That would create a whole new/different car.

I agree that no Type-R should have those luxury features (AT, leather, etc) but I would think in order to compete with the next gen of Sport Compacts or Hot Hatches, FWD would be a limiting factor, if Honda wanted to maintain lap time supremacy. Thus an effective AWD system would make sense to effectively put the power down. Case in point, current NSX vs. the NA1/NA2 NSX. No they aren't Type-Rs but I'm just saying that it wouldn't surprise me if Honda were to stray from their roots in order to compete. I also wouldn't be surprised if a DCT/DSG type transmission would be offered as an option as well.

And yes even though the FK8 beats the current Focus RS and STI in recorded track times, I said NEXT GEN.

 

[PwrOfDreams]

I agree that no Type-R should have those luxury features (AT, leather, etc) but I would think in order to compete with the next gen of Sport Compacts or Hot Hatches, FWD would be a limiting factor, if Honda wanted to maintain lap time supremacy. Thus an effective AWD system would make sense to effectively put the power down. Case in point, current NSX vs. the NA1/NA2 NSX. No they aren't Type-Rs but I'm just saying that it wouldn't surprise me if Honda were to stray from their roots in order to compete. I also wouldn't be surprised if a DCT/DSG type transmission would be offered as an option as well.

And yes even though the FK8 beats the current Focus RS and STI in recorded track times, I said NEXT GEN.

SH-AWD?

 

[moonman]

I agree that no Type-R should have those luxury features (AT, leather, etc) but I would think in order to compete with the next gen of Sport Compacts or Hot Hatches, FWD would be a limiting factor, if Honda wanted to maintain lap time supremacy. Thus an effective AWD system would make sense to effectively put the power down. Case in point, current NSX vs. the NA1/NA2 NSX. No they aren't Type-Rs but I'm just saying that it wouldn't surprise me if Honda were to stray from their roots in order to compete. I also wouldn't be surprised if a DCT/DSG type transmission would be offered as an option as well.

And yes even though the FK8 beats the current Focus RS and STI in recorded track times, I said NEXT GEN.

Yeah, maybe in the future there will be a compact AWD Honda. But that would be a new car, not a Civic, not a Type R. Probably an electric racer using an engine on each wheel

 

[iLovePho]

SH-AWD?

Sure, if mated to a proper manual transmission. I don't think any of current SH-AWD equipped vehicles come with manual transmission though.....

If I cared solely for lap times, DSG/DCT type transmissions will be what I want. But for pure driving enjoyment, you can't beat a proper gated manual, unless you drive in traffic all the time. It would be a deal killer for me if the next CTR only came in DCT/DSG AND only FWD.

Edit: TL SH-AWD comes with manual, not sure if any other SH-AWD + manual from the factory exists

 

[toddrhodes]

My 4G TL SH-AWD is a 6 speed, but that's the only one that I'm aware of, and there aren't many of them around.

 

[Design]

I was perfectly happy ditching my 270 WHP MS3 for the Si.

The CTR would have been more of the same, which would have been fine. But the big dealbreaker was the lack of the fifth seat. The higher ownership costs and vandalism risks were also a factor, but not a barrier to to ownership. I doubt there's anything they could add in 2019 that would make me give up the Si.

Good car, just not compelling enough for me to buy.

 

[Maverick1]

Sure, if mated to a proper manual transmission. I don't think any of current SH-AWD equipped vehicles come with manual transmission though.....

If I cared solely for lap times, DSG/DCT type transmissions will be what I want. But for pure driving enjoyment, you can't beat a proper gated manual, unless you drive in traffic all the time. It would be a deal killer for me if the next CTR only came in DCT/DSG AND only FWD.

Edit: TL SH-AWD comes with manual, not sure if any other SH-AWD + manual from the factory exists

Since Ferrari has done away with manual transmissions and their lovely metal gated shifters, the older cars with manuals have skyrocketed in price.
This is just music to my ears.

Just wish someone would make a really sweet sounding exhaust for the Type R.

 

[Harlaquin]

Nothing. I got such a low number, 141. And it's always the first year collectors end up wanting. Plus all the stuff people are wanting is just fluff...mirrors..lane watch..seats.. knobs..blah blah. Nothing new I see I would want unless they just dropped a bad ass new look. Then I would still keep my 17 and get the new one.

 

[willimo]

Lane watch would be nice; lay people ask me what car they should buy and I tell them that cars are all pretty similar across the market anymore, the only thing that is worth buying a new car for is the security suites that they are installing. I strongly encouraged my wife not to consider anything else.

I like the Sonic Gray very much but not as much as Championship White, truth be told.

No way I'd want a sunroof, leather seats, smaller wing, any of that nonsense. I'd love smaller wheels, or at least silver wheels. But, as another poster mentioned, I can just buy some take-offs. I'd also love blank or slotted-only front brake discs, but again, I could probably just get some take-offs.

I don't think anything is going to change drastically anyway, and I can't imagine a drastic enough change that would have me trading the car in.

In five years, there may be a completely new car. That might be worth a thought. But I have been waiting for the Type R to come to our shores since I was in high school. This is a dream, and I'm not trading it.

Also, when y'all talk about these refreshes, Honda tends to do them poorly. They usually add a couple features that aren't that important, leave the driveline and mechanical components the same, and make the car somehow look cheaper than before the refresh. The ITR wasn't really a refresh and didn't exactly follow changes in the regular DC2. They made the ITR in 1996, skipped a year, and then an essentially different ITR in 1998. Slightly different tuning on the engine and transmission but not a lot of other changes. The AP1 S2000 is almost a different car from the AP2. The engine was very different - Honda doesn't bump displacement, even by .2l, without a good reason (the 2.0l wasn't selling well because no one understood it) and a lot of intention. The trans was tweaked to work with it, and it benefited from the culmination of many, many changes (incrementally fixing snap oversteer, for example). Even the CR was just a body kit, shocks, and some marvelous tires. It was the same for the NSX. Many small changes over the years, then a sudden change with the body and driveline.

I think about the only thing that could potentially get me to get a new version of the Type R would be if something terrible happened to my current one, or if they came out with a "stripped down" CR version (but still with a radio and AC, because I already have a car without that stuff....).

 

[Nath]

What I'd like:
--a lockout on that "comfort" mode switch so my wife won't keep activating it.
Other than that,..my 2018 Type R is already pure perfection.

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