2016 Civic Si turbo - welcome or not?

05 Si

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We don't know exactly if the new Si will be turbo or naturally aspirated but there's at least a significant chance it will be turbo. What's everyone think of it going from its traditional high revving naturally aspirated engine to a turbo engine? Yea I know the 9th gen was down 1000 rpm to the 8th gen, but the Si has traditionally had a high revving NA engine.

Anyways would you welcome a move to forced induction?
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randY49

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I can't think of anything they can do to keep up with the competition without going turbo. I wouldn't be bothered by an Si turbo.
 

G26okie

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I'm kinda torn on this. On the one hand, an N/A engine has a few less things to worry about, instant throttle response and usually higher revving which is fun.

On the other hand, having come from a mazdaspeed 3, the low end torque made it ridiculously fun to drive with about 280lbft at 3000 rpm. It would basically slingslot you past people from a light at part throttle.

I'd be happy with either choice they go with, but I'd like at least 220hp.
 

H_P

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I'd have to agree with Randy. While not direct competitors the new Focus RS will have a turbo that's good for 345hp/325lb-ft, Golf R has 292hp, STi has 305.

That's some stout numbers. I'd prefer NA but there's really no way to achieve the kind of power they need in order to compete at this price point without some forced induction.
 

G26okie

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I'd have to agree with Randy. While not direct competitors the new Focus RS will have a turbo that's good for 345hp/325lb-ft, Golf R has 292hp, STi has 305.

That's some stout numbers. I'd prefer NA but there's really no way to achieve the kind of power they need in order to compete at this price point without some forced induction.
Eh, those cars competition will be the type R not the Si. The Si is competing with the focus st, gti, wrx etc.
 


Kane76

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For me here are the pros and cons. Not like Honda had much of a choice anyway if it wanted to keep up in terms of power and efficiency.

Pros: more torque, better acceleration, more tuning potential
Cons: not as high/free revving, not as responsive, turbo lag, less reliable/more issues, turbo exhausts sound bad
 

iamjack

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For me here are the pros and cons. Not like Honda had much of a choice anyway if it wanted to keep up in terms of power and efficiency.

Pros: more torque, better acceleration, more tuning potential
Cons: not as high/free revving, not as responsive, turbo lag, less reliable/more issues, turbo exhausts sound bad
Another pro is better MPG.

Lag will be there on any turbo engine, some more than others. Interested in what size turbo is being used in the 1.5T. Doubt it'll be very big so there shouldn't be too much lag.
 

Design

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I more than welcome it. Honda will get both the output and efficiency they want. And they can tweak the hardware/tuning to mimic 90% of the NA behavior.
 

Tegster

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I more than welcome it. Honda will get both the output and efficiency they want. And they can tweak the hardware/tuning to mimic 90% of the NA behavior.
The 10% left is what's left me not completely thrilled by turbos, especially the throttle response. Always seems just a step behind NA engines and artificial feeling because of the non-linear feel of it. But I'm still keeping an open mind to it since I'll have no NA choices period in a few years. :(

Honda better put in a 2 liter turbo in the Si though if they want to compete with the likes of your Mazdaspeed 3.
A 1.5T would be down big time to your 2.3T, but a 2.0T could have the Si nipping on your heels in the performance department.
 

Diode Dynamics

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Most of today's factory turbo'd cars have minimal lag FWIW. I think a factory turbo on the 10th Gen Si would make things very interesting

It's worked out extremely well for Ford with the Focus/Fiesta ST

Nick C.
 


HondaGeek

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There are already so many turbo engines in its category, that it would be awesome if Honda stayed with a high revving K20. That being said, the main reason, even more so than MPG, that Honda is finally embracing turbos is emissions. I know this for a fact, based on what my dealer principal (owner) has been made privy to at Honda meetings.

Its no secret that emissions have changed the way all manufacturers build engines, and it will become even more prominent with the recent VW scandal.

That being said, I would prefer the Si to have a NA four cylinder with 240HP and an 8K redline, while they let the Type R take care of the turbo business.
 

mvance30

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Lag will be there on any turbo engine, some more than others. Interested in what size turbo is being used in the 1.5T. Doubt it'll be very big so there shouldn't be too much lag.
I've only ever owned one turbo car. It was a 250-300hp Galant vr4, talk about lag! the car was great and a bit slower than my e36 m3 I had before it but the turbo spool was pretty fun. But I got caught a few times in the wrong gear and it took awhile to get up and going.

Theres not much punch in the SI I think below 3k rpm anyway. I haven't driven a focus st but I have driven a wrx. it gave me the same impressions as far as power delivery and speed as the SI did. I don't think modern turbo cars in this speed/hp area have much lag. You usually feel it more in cars with higher HP that rely more on the turbo.
 

takemorepills

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1.5T would be so grossly limiting to the Si. All versions of the Si from the B16 powered cars to recent K24 powered cars have left a LOT of tuning potential on the table. All of these motors took a turbo kit very nicely, especially the K powered cars. Kind of the Si's cool little secret. If you look up turbo K series Si's, prepare to be impressed. While off the showroom floor the NA K series is technically caught short in the power department, no other engine handles mods so well, it's a freaky engine. Not even the factory turbo cars, not even the WRX's...can be tuned as easily and reliably as a turbo K. A K series with moderate $$$ in it will easily whoop on a WRX with the same $$$ in it. It is a very tune-able platform, and for that it deserves due credit.

Unfortunately I have not driven a K series Si, I have only experienced the K in a TSX AT. But I have driven the Fords with the 1.6 EB, and I will say that the lag is almost non existent. The 1.6 EB makes a good impression of a moderate V6 at mid revs, but the engine's powerband is NOT enthusiastic at all. It is respectable, but definitely asthmatic in the upper revs, of which the redline is kinda low also. Meh.

A 1.5T Si would be pretty much maxed out, and would be a slap in the face to tuners who have become accustomed to the potential of the current Si. You are not getting 350+ WHP out of a stock internal 1.5T. No way.
 

HondaGeek

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I've only ever owned one turbo car. It was a 250-300hp Galant vr4, talk about lag! the car was great and a bit slower than my e36 m3 I had before it but the turbo spool was pretty fun. But I got caught a few times in the wrong gear and it took awhile to get up and going.

Theres not much punch in the SI I think below 3k rpm anyway. I haven't driven a focus st but I have driven a wrx. it gave me the same impressions as far as power delivery and speed as the SI did. I don't think modern turbo cars in this speed/hp area have much lag. You usually feel it more in cars with higher HP that rely more on the turbo.
Galant VR4? Wow. That was an amazing car for the time.
 

HondaGeek

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1.5T would be so grossly limiting to the Si. All versions of the Si from the B16 powered cars to recent K24 powered cars have left a LOT of tuning potential on the table. All of these motors took a turbo kit very nicely, especially the K powered cars. Kind of the Si's cool little secret. If you look up turbo K series Si's, prepare to be impressed. While off the showroom floor the NA K series is technically caught short in the power department, no other engine handles mods so well, it's a freaky engine. Not even the factory turbo cars, not even the WRX's...can be tuned as easily and reliably as a turbo K. A K series with moderate $$$ in it will easily whoop on a WRX with the same $$$ in it. It is a very tune-able platform, and for that it deserves due credit.

Unfortunately I have not driven a K series Si, I have only experienced the K in a TSX AT. But I have driven the Fords with the 1.6 EB, and I will say that the lag is almost non existent. The 1.6 EB makes a good impression of a moderate V6 at mid revs, but the engine's powerband is NOT enthusiastic at all. It is respectable, but definitely asthmatic in the upper revs, of which the redline is kinda low also. Meh.

A 1.5T Si would be pretty much maxed out, and would be a slap in the face to tuners who have become accustomed to the potential of the current Si. You are not getting 350+ WHP out of a stock internal 1.5T. No way.
This is a tricky one. It really all depends on how strong the internals are in the 1.5T. If the block and components are strong enough, yes, you would be able to get 350HP to the wheels, but most likely upgrading the turbo itself.

I had an Evo X which, to the wheels, puts out around 240HP. With just a K&N drop in filter, cat back exhaust and a tune I was at 312HP. The stock turbo more or less maxes out at around 350HP. If you want more power, you have to upgrade the turbo. Especially if your goal is to be above 400 WHP. Evo engines are much more tunable than Subaru 2.0 and 2.5 blocks. You will spend a lot less in an Evo for more power than a Subaru. Its a fact.

The K20 is somewhat you unique. Can you get high power out of it with a turbo kit? Yes. More than a WRX? Yeah. But the tuning has to be perfect due to the high compression ratio, which usually sits around 11. Most turbo engines have a compression ratio of 8-9. You can blow a K20 easy if the turbo tune is off. In my opinion, a supercharger works best for the K20, since boasts levels stay around the 6 PSi mark and you still have a high revving engine. With a turbo, and boasts levels around 15+ PSi, the K20s redline is usually lowered.

Stock internals, I would not push a K20 over 300 WHP, if you want reliability. The F20C in the S2K, which does have some forged engine components and a carbon fiber reinforced block, can handle turbo power a bit better, usually into the 400 HP range.

I still prefer a NA K20 engine, however. I love the experience of a screaming engine, which is something the Evo just didnt have.

I dare say that if the Si comes with any turbo engine, it will be very popular in the tuning scene. Even more so than the Type R, since it will have a much higher price of entry.
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