iamjack

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The manufacturer still has to get every engine/trans approved, even if it is in the same 'body' as an EX.
True. I was just talking about the issue of parts or vehicle design being changed to conform to global safety requirements.
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hothatchi

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Global proof is good for Honda but not necessarily good for all buyers in all markets. Designing something for the strictest market's requirements ends up nerfing some of a car's design. For example because of the strictest requirements in places like Europe and US, the less strict markets won't get cool things like the Civic Concept's sleek side mirrors.
That's just the way of the auto industry nowadays. It costs too much to build cars to different specs for different markets so they just design them to meet the toughest regulations.
 

Jessegovols

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Saw this article recently on a car blog. Don't know how believable it is but fun to speculate anyway...

Slotting between the grocery-getter Civic and the mental Type R will be a medium-hot version. While Australian press is calling it the Type S, a name last seen in the US on the Acura RSX, CL and TL, it will probably be billed as a Civic Si in the US.

According to Motoring.com.au, power will come from the turbocharged 1.5L inline-four announced at the concept unveiling at the New York Auto Show earlier this year. However, it will be tuned to output somewhere in the neighborhood of 200hp, 25 percent more than the 148hp version of the same mill used in the Japan-market Honda StepWGN. Torque, too, would be similarly bumped, from 150 lb-ft in the minivan application to 192 lb-ft.

Judging by past Civic Si models, the new one would likely come with a manual transmission only, perhaps the 6-speed stickshift offered as standard. With the cancellation of the Civic's hybrid and CNG variants announced earlier this week, the model appears to be leaning heavily towards a performance-oriented direction, much like the Civics of the late 80s and early 90s, during with the Si trim was first introduced.

Source - http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-may-introduce-mediumperformance-civic-si-88860.html#ixzz3drNbpPbB
Well it's lighter weight with higher torque at lower rpm would most likely offer a slight improvement in performance and economy over the outgoing model, though as many here suggest it's small engine size would definitely limit the aftermarket crowd.
 

Fg4Marko

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I really hope for everyones sake that they crest this proverbial line that honda has set at 200Hp.......... two engines have kept it there first the awesome K20! which i loved in my 2006 Si coupe. Then the pretty great K24 which i have now in my 2012 Si coupe.....they had the chance to increase Hp then, they gave it more Tq, im not complaining at all its pretty great, but we need to start seeing 240Hp as the Si's norm...when a mom in her V6 van can out run you ar a green light stock to stock its kinda funny and not at the same time lol... its not a far fetched number these days as most cars are close to that anyway.......the HP wars are on and Honda better not fall behind....who cares about how much gas it uses, you dont buy a sports related car and then worry about its MPG......thats just silly IMO.....you want MPG go get an EX or LX......i know im harsh but i see great things for Honda and they just dropped the ball hard with the FG4 series of cars
 

manhunt

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There's also the issue of having the Type R above it and not wanting to step on its toes. There's a significant price difference and they can't just go balls to the wall with the Si. I agree with you though, 200+ is really not a big deal now and I'd like to see the Civic X Si around the 230hp range.
 


Design

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Honda is marketing the Si to compete with the GTI crowd. 215-240 is the likely target, but could go as high as 260 without encroaching on the Type R. Likely a 2.0T with a different IM, IC, valvetrain, exhaust, etc.

That said, they really need to get the suspension right this time around. And with this being a global model, with strong influence from the upcoming Type R, I'm fairly confident they'll pull it off.
 

G26okie

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Honda is marketing the Si to compete with the GTI crowd. 215-240 is the likely target, but could go as high as 260 without encroaching on the Type R. Likely a 2.0T with a different IM, IC, valvetrain, exhaust, etc.

That said, they really need to get the suspension right this time around. And with this being a global model, with strong influence from the upcoming Type R, I'm fairly confident they'll pull it off.
Do you think they would add the 8 speed ILX DCT to the Si to better compete with the GTI which offers a dct?
 

G26okie

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Historical approach as in the Si being manual only?
Yeah, that is what he mean't.

As far as HP is concerned, I highly doubt we are going to see a 240hp Si. Honda has never been much of a hp number kinda company. I could see the Si coming in around 220hp.
 


civvie

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Yeah, that is what he mean't.

As far as HP is concerned, I highly doubt we are going to see a 240hp Si. Honda has never been much of a hp number kinda company. I could see the Si coming in around 220hp.
That's probably a reasonable, if conservative guess. 15 hp more than the current Si will be easy if it goes turbo. The 1.5T engine already makes 31 HP more than the current standard model's engine.
 

cae

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Honda is marketing the Si to compete with the GTI crowd. 215-240 is the likely target, but could go as high as 260 without encroaching on the Type R. Likely a 2.0T with a different IM, IC, valvetrain, exhaust, etc.

That said, they really need to get the suspension right this time around. And with this being a global model, with strong influence from the upcoming Type R, I'm fairly confident they'll pull it off.
The GTI is an odd beast, $700 tune away from 300 horsepower and mid-high 12s, plenty left on the table. Were Honda to use the 1.5T in the Si, they'd be at a disadvantage against similarly priced cars like the Focus ST & GTI, or on equal ground with a car that undercuts its price - the Fiesta ST. The Focus RS and Golf R halos offer AWD, but the CTR remains FWD. Are there enough differences elsewhere to allow the 2.0T to be detuned for use in the Si? Is there enough left in the 1.5T to put up a fight with the other 2.0Ts in the segment? I'm not sure. Hopefully they'll shoot for the best driver's car feel of the lot, even if they have to lose the power on paper battle.
 

Tuttle

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The GTI is an odd beast, $700 tune away from 300 horsepower and mid-high 12s, plenty left on the table. Were Honda to use the 1.5T in the Si, they'd be at a disadvantage against similarly priced cars like the Focus ST & GTI, or on equal ground with a car that undercuts its price - the Fiesta ST. The Focus RS and Golf R halos offer AWD, but the CTR remains FWD. Are there enough differences elsewhere to allow the 2.0T to be detuned for use in the Si? Is there enough left in the 1.5T to put up a fight with the other 2.0Ts in the segment? I'm not sure. Hopefully they'll shoot for the best driver's car feel of the lot, even if they have to lose the power on paper battle.
Therein lies one of the problem with just going with a 1.5T in the Si in my opinion. Regardless of how well it performs and what kind of numbers it has on paper, the displacement number still helps sell cars. The GTI and Focus ST both have 2.0 turbos and if the Si comes with a 1.5 turbo, it automatically sounds like it doesn't perform as well as those cars just based on the smaller displacement.

I think Honda should stick detuned 2.0T in the Si even if there's not a ton of gap between that and the configuration they put into the Type R. The differences that make the Type R worth its premium price over the Si can be marketed as extra styling, much better track ability, and all the extra chassis, suspension, wheels/tires engineering that it features.
 
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takemorepills

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Everyone assumes that a 2.0T in the Si would create a conundrum for Honda, as if Honda can only separate the two cars by engine type.
Again I will remind y'all of the WRX and STi. For years both used a 2.5T but both are very different cars.
Why does everyone assume that the Si and CTR can't both use a 2.0T? You think Honda couldn't create obvious differences between the two cars? Back in the 90's Honda had the Integra GS, GS-R, and Type-R. And no they were not separated by a simple tune!

BTW there's a video on here that shows a 1.5T crate motor. I'll see if I can link it. The 1.5T is NOT a performance motor. It is an obviously small engine externally with a very small turbo bolted to the cylinder head.
Besides the fact that the 1.5T looks smaller than a typical 4 cylinder, the fact that there is such a small turbo bolted to a cylinder head, no manifold, just goes to show it is not a wolf in sheep's clothing. It is an economy engine. Period. The 1.5T has no place in the Si
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