2016 Civic Si rumored to have around 200HP

[05 Si]

Saw this article recently on a car blog. Don't know how believable it is but fun to speculate anyway...

Slotting between the grocery-getter Civic and the mental Type R will be a medium-hot version. While Australian press is calling it the Type S, a name last seen in the US on the Acura RSX, CL and TL, it will probably be billed as a Civic Si in the US.

According to Motoring.com.au, power will come from the turbocharged 1.5L inline-four announced at the concept unveiling at the New York Auto Show earlier this year. However, it will be tuned to output somewhere in the neighborhood of 200hp, 25 percent more than the 148hp version of the same mill used in the Japan-market Honda StepWGN. Torque, too, would be similarly bumped, from 150 lb-ft in the minivan application to 192 lb-ft.

Judging by past Civic Si models, the new one would likely come with a manual transmission only, perhaps the 6-speed stickshift offered as standard. With the cancellation of the Civic's hybrid and CNG variants announced earlier this week, the model appears to be leaning heavily towards a performance-oriented direction, much like the Civics of the late 80s and early 90s, during with the Si trim was first introduced.

Source - http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-may-introduce-mediumperformance-civic-si-88860.html#ixzz3drNbpPbB

 

[randY49]

I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption. Power to weight ratio would improve with the car being lighter. It'll be interesting to see what they do.

 

[BigBang09]

This Type S does seem like it would be in the Si's slot. Would be silly to replace the Si badge, given it's history and following, so I'm sure where it's already known as the Si it'll stay that way. I was hoping for a slight power boost, but if that's the engine it's using, they would have less displacement to work with, so I guess it makes sense. Hopefully the new platform is indeed a lighter one...

On that note, anyone who was worried about the Si having merely a "detuned" Type R engine probably doesn't have to worry anymore.

 

[Rainbow Warrior]

On that note, anyone who was worried about the Si having merely a "detuned" Type R engine probably doesn't have to worry anymore.

Wouldn't that have been a good thing if the Si had a detuned Type R engine? So then just some small mods could unleash a lot of power?

Agreed It would be foolish to get rid of the Si badge.

 

[BigBang09]

Wouldn't that have been a good thing if the Si had a detuned Type R engine? So then just some small mods could unleash a lot of power?

I'd say so, but there was one post on here (I forget where) saying Type R buyers might feel ripped off if that were the case, having spent all the extra money to get that performance stock, vs an Si buyer saving a lot by just using some mods to at least match it. The engine would hardly be the only difference between the two, but I can see the point they were trying to make.

 

[Rainbow Warrior]

I'd say so, but there was one post on here (I forget where) saying Type R buyers might feel ripped off if that were the case, having spent all the extra money to get that performance stock, vs an Si buyer saving a lot by just using some mods to at least match it. The engine would hardly be the only difference between the two, but I can see the point they were trying to make.

That's true. Would suck if some bolt-ons (or even just sourcing the parts which 'de-tunes' the engine) gets it to Type R specs. But I'd imagine if you went the route of sourcing the OE parts to put back in that would end up actually more expensive than just buying the Type R to begin with. As for aftermarket well that's another story I guess, but you'd lose your warranty.

 

[takemorepills]

This concerns me quite a bit:
http://www.automobilemag.com/featur...s-mazdaspeed3-civic-type-r-bmw-m2-audi-tt-rs/

They are stating that the Si will get the 1.5T. This is no bueno, I hope they are just repeating an incorrect rumor. I don't care what anybody says, the 1.5T won't have enough potential left on the table to get much more power from it. IMO, the Si needs to be about 240-250HP to be competitive, no actually to dominate, it's class. That's approx. 160-166HP/liter. That's pushing it and if it needed mods to get there, the internals might need work also, all big $$$. At 200-ish HP, the Si will meet the same fate as the BRZ and FR-S, a great car undermined by an average motor that everyone wanted to love.

I'd be cool with a 2.0 or 2.4 ED making 200-230HP N/A and then it can be turbo'ed later on. There's no replacement for displacement even when turbos are in the mix.

I'd say so, but there was one post on here (I forget where) saying Type R buyers might feel ripped off if that were the case, having spent all the extra money to get that performance stock, vs an Si buyer saving a lot by just using some mods to at least match it. The engine would hardly be the only difference between the two, but I can see the point they were trying to make.

Well, conversely I am not too happy hearing that the Si will get what is likely to be the SAME engine as the EX with likely/possibly some differentiation tuning to add a little HP. Meaning the EX guys would most definitely be just a tune away from running down an Si.

I like the other ideas floated about a detuned 2.0T, such as different VTEC system and hardware that would be difficult to obtain to make the CTR motor out of an Si motor.

This happened with the last gen WRX/STI. Subaru updated the WRX motor in 2009 causing that car to out accelerate the STI in most measures. In fact, the WRX could also nip at the heels of the STI in many other regards......for a few moments. Until the superior hardware of the STI began to show it's stuff on the track. Even though the WRX and STI became so close from '09-'14, it was the hardware of the STI that set it apart, so far apart from the WRX that getting true STI track performance from a WRX meant spending too much money on the WRX.

 

[Jorge]

This concerns me quite a bit:
http://www.automobilemag.com/featur...s-mazdaspeed3-civic-type-r-bmw-m2-audi-tt-rs/

They are stating that the Si will get the 1.5T. This is no bueno, I hope they are just repeating an incorrect rumor. I don't care what anybody says, the 1.5T won't have enough potential left on the table to get much more power from it. IMO, the Si needs to be about 240-250HP to be competitive, no actually to dominate, it's class. That's approx. 160-166HP/liter. That's pushing it and if it needed mods to get there, the internals might need work also, all big $$$. At 200-ish HP, the Si will meet the same fate as the BRZ and FR-S, a great car undermined by an average motor that everyone wanted to love.

I'd be cool with a 2.0 or 2.4 ED making 200-230HP N/A and then it can be turbo'ed later on. There's no replacement for displacement even when turbos are in the mix.



Well, conversely I am not too happy hearing that the Si will get what is likely to be the SAME engine as the EX with likely/possibly some differentiation tuning to add a little HP. Meaning the EX guys would most definitely be just a tune away from running down an Si.

I like the other ideas floated about a detuned 2.0T, such as different VTEC system and hardware that would be difficult to obtain to make the CTR motor out of an Si motor.

This happened with the last gen WRX/STI. Subaru updated the WRX motor in 2009 causing that car to out accelerate the STI in most measures. In fact, the WRX could also nip at the heels of the STI in many other regards......for a few moments. Until the superior hardware of the STI began to show it's stuff on the track. Even though the WRX and STI became so close from '09-'14, it was the hardware of the STI that set it apart, so far apart from the WRX that getting true STI track performance from a WRX meant spending too much money on the WRX.

I'm sure we all can agree that the 2.0T is what's desired but it's unlikely, i think it comes down to a pick your poison situation: Detune a 2.0T and make Type R owners feels ripped off or protect themselves by detunning the SI motor with the EX and keep the Type R as the "extreme" performance car model.

 

[05 Si]

I'm sure we all can agree that the 2.0T is what's desired but it's unlikely, i think it comes down to a pick your poison situation: Detune a 2.0T and make Type R owners feels ripped off or protect themselves by detunning the SI motor with the EX and keep the Type R as the "extreme" performance car model.

Makes sense to 'protect' the Type R by not giving the Si a detuned version of its engine. That's going to be the halo model, even in the US for this next generation, so it should have the most unique parts and engineering out of all the models in the lineup.

But yea Si owners may not be happy if EX owners literally only need a tune to match its power. But that's how the turbo engine world works now. Companies are going with fewer engines overall throughout their lineup and in many cases only separating the models' power levels by giving either giving it a tune or not. Saves money for them, but less differentiation for us enthusiasts.

 

[randY49]

I agree to a point, but an Si will always have other parts/looks that differentiate it from an EX. It may be relatively easy to match the power, but looks and handling will be a different story.

 

[Jorge]

I agree to a point, but an Si will always have other parts/looks that differentiate it from an EX. It may be relatively easy to match the power, but looks and handling will be a different story.

True, but then again $4,000 can do a whole lot for aesthetics and aftermarket parts

 

[randY49]

That's true, but there is only a $2,500 difference between current EX and Si Coupes, and only $1,900 between EX and Si Sedans.

The last thing to consider is, of course, the warranty... and specifically how VOID it would be once modifications are done.

 

[Jorge]

That's true, but there is only a $2,500 difference between current EX and Si Coupes, and only $1,900 between EX and Si Sedans.

The last thing to consider is, of course, the warranty... and specifically how VOID it would be once modifications are done.

You right! Especially with a brand new redesign I'm sure every new car will have its hiccups. Warranty is the only reason I'm getting the si over tuning a ex

 

[Strut310]

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/I...ecient-Civic-in-fall-2016-drops-hybrid-option

According to this article I read they are going to have two engines to choose from, a 1.5 and a 2.0. So if this is true, then I would have to say the 1.5's in the lower levels. And the sedan and coupe si's would get the 2.0's. 240 to 250 HP? That would wow me! A 2.0 turbo in a coupe si would put it right in between a regular sedan and the coming hatchback. Thoughts.

 

[randY49]

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/I...ecient-Civic-in-fall-2016-drops-hybrid-option

According to this article I read they are going to have two engines to choose from, a 1.5 and a 2.0. So if this is true, then I would have to say the 1.5's in the lower levels. And the sedan and coupe si's would get the 2.0's. 240 to 250 HP? That would wow me! A 2.0 turbo in a coupe si would put it right in between a regular sedan and the coming hatchback. Thoughts.

The 1.5 is turbo, the 2.0 is not. The 2.0 will be in lower trims, the 1.5T in higher ones. That was announced day one at the New York Auto Show.

The 2.0 turbo in the Type-R has not been confirmed for the U.S., so Honda could change that engine in the next Type-R (the one that will come to the U.S.).