2016 Civic engine recall - piston pin snap ring issue affecting some VINs

[Stratojet]

It'll be interesting to see how they scope to observe each piston. My take on it will be to drain the oil. Orient the motor so two pistons are at the bottom of the stroke (BDC), then go up through the oil drain plug with the scope. Snake up to the bottom side of a piston and then up the flat piston side to observe the Snap ring. Move to the other piston side. Observe. Repeat. Tum engine till the remaining 2 pistons are at BDC. Snake up and observe those two. The pistons have a flat on their sides to just below the bottom oil control ring land, and the clip will be very close to the edge of the pin bore. Close enough that a good lighted and guidable boroscope with a custom head will be able to easily see the clip orientation. I'd say 1 hour when they get a system going. A little (gulp) more if a clip is found to be out of position.

Here's a blown up view of a 2015 1.8. I'm assuming the 2016 2.0 piston is likely very similar. A typical modern lightweight piston design. Piston flat in red. Snap ring in purple.

2015 1.8 L shown below,

I don't know if my Alliston build #2500 is on the list, and I'm completely refusing to worry about it. Not going to even call. I'll get the letter if and when it comes and Honda will make it right. I'm not worried and we still love this great little car and that's that. Cheers and good luck to all.

 

[Boz]

It'll be interesting to see how they scope to observe each piston. My take on it will be to drain the oil. Orient the motor so two pistons are at the bottom of the stroke (BDC), then go up through the oil drain plug with the scope. Snake up to the bottom side of a piston and then up the flat piston side to observe the C clip. Move to the other piston side. Observe. Repeat. Tum engine till the remaining 2 pistons are at BDC. Snake up and observe those two. The pistons have a flat on their sides to just below the bottom oil control ring land, and the clip will be very close to the edge of the pin bore. Close enough that a good lighted and guidable boroscope with a custom head will be able to easily see the clip orientation. I'd say 1 hour when they get a system going. A little (gulp) more if a clip is found to be out of position.

Here's a blown up view of a 2015 1.8. I'm assuming the 2016 2.0 piston is likely very similar. A typical modern lightweight piston design. Piston flat in red. C Clip in purple.

I don't know if my Alliston build #2500 is on the list, and I'm completely refusing to worry about it. Not going to even call. I'll get the letter if and when it comes and Honda will make it right. I'm not worried and we still love this great little car and that's that. Cheers and good luck to all.

Thanks for your post. When you say "little (gulp) more if a clip is found to be out of position", how much more time do you think it will take to repair, if needed? Can it be repaired through the same route as the scope?

 

[Soma]

I know I'm beating a dead horse and understand its tied to certain vins but how come the Honda bulletin on page one of this thread says ALL trims are affected? Doesn't sound like its only the 2.0 motors.

 

[Stratojet]

Thanks for your post. When you say "little (gulp) more if a clip is found to be out of position", how much more time do you think it will take to repair, if needed? Can it be repaired through the same route as the scope?

I don't think they could re-seat the clip without at least removing the pan. But hey, one never knows, taking a cue from the aerospace industry, a tool could probably be made up that could do it through the drain plug.
As to removing the pan on a civic, I have no clue how and if it could be done in car. But my gut tells me the engine will probably have to come out. Two days labor maybe?
Lets hope they don't find many.

You know, any one of us could actually have a failed clip and not even know it. If the piston pin is full floating, in that it is not pressed into the rod, and I assume it is, when the clip pops out and quietly falls to the bottom of the pan, the pin will simply slide over until it's now retained by just the cylinder wall. Both sides of the piston will still be supported on the pin, albeit not much on the side with the clip still in place. Wear will begin on the cylinder wall, pin and piston pin bore, and when the pin becomes short enough (moves out towards the bore enough), one side of that pistons pin bore will no longer be supported by the pin, and will drop down causing the piston to cock in the bore, and that will be totally catastrophic, in that the piston will break. I'd think we'd begin to hear a rattle or an odd sound well before total failure, combined with the blue smoke of excess oil consumption. So keep your ears and eyes open.

Any reports of an actual engine failure from this yet?

 

[ICanLiftACivicUp]

I know I'm beating a dead horse and understand its tied to certain vins but how come the Honda bulletin on page one of this thread says ALL trims are affected? Doesn't sound like its only the 2.0 motors.

They probably didn't know the full range of affected cars at that time. January 30 was Saturday.

 

[10thG]

I know I'm beating a dead horse and understand its tied to certain vins but how come the Honda bulletin on page one of this thread says ALL trims are affected? Doesn't sound like its only the 2.0 motors.

I was wondering the same thing but since this is a service bulletin to dealerships I could be wrong but my guess is because they wanted dealers to check all trims to make sure the problem was not more widespread. More than a few people who reached out to Honda were told officially that it only affects the 2.0L. I guess we'll find out on Friday when they issue a formal statement.

See this post.

"Honda has issued a stop sale on the 2016 Civic with the 2.0-liter four-cylinder for a problem that might allegedly lead to engine failure. The company also plans to recall and inspect the examples already with customers. Honda spokesperson Chris Martin tells Autoblog that the issue doesn't affect any Civics with the 1.5-liter turbocharged engine.

"While the specific details of this action are still being determined, American Honda has provided preliminary information to the NHTSA and intends to provide more details in a formal notification to NHTSA on Friday, February 5," Martin said. After the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration acknowledges the details, Honda will issue an official statement about the problem."

 

[dick w]

It'll be interesting to see how they scope to observe each piston. My take on it will be to drain the oil. Orient the motor so two pistons are at the bottom of the stroke (BDC), then go up through the oil drain plug with the scope. Snake up to the bottom side of a piston and then up the flat piston side to observe the Snap ring. Move to the other piston side. Observe. Repeat. Tum engine till the remaining 2 pistons are at BDC. Snake up and observe those two.

If the engine were designed with guides for a borescope to get to these places from the drain hole at the outset, this might be possible. Since it wasn't, it seems like it would be very difficult at best and, worse, time consuming, to work around the stuff in the pan, like the pump intake, to get to all eight right places. Seem like, if nothing else, time, hence allowed tech labor hrs, will dictate dropping the pan. What I don't know is how much structure/other plumbing is in the way of doing that.

 

[Jon Snow]

American Honda has provided preliminary information to the NHTSA and intends to provide more details in a formal notification to NHTSA on Friday, February 5

That's good timing because I'm intending to go out Saturday morning to try to buy my Touring (been having a hard time of it). Hopefully that information leaks out and we''ll know for sure whether any 1.5T engines are affected. If so, there's no way I'm buying a car that needs to have major engine surgery done on it. Hopefully it's all good on the 1.5Ts though. And I'm hoping dealers are going to have inventory issues with the stop-sales (including inventory drying up from cars that were shipped but have to now be sent back) and want to move more cars.

 

[dick w]

There also appears to be a baffle plate in the way as well.

The piston diagram for the engine in question:

 

[Stratojet]

If the engine were designed with guides for a borescope to get to these places from the drain hole at the outset, this might be possible. Since it wasn't, it seems like it would be very difficult at best and, worse, time consuming, to work around the stuff in the pan, like the pump intake, to get to all eight right places. Seem like, if nothing else, time, hence allowed tech labor hrs, will dictate dropping the pan. What I don't know is how much structure/other plumbing is in the way of doing that.

Windage tray = Pan must be dropped.

 

[dick w]

Sorry. Meant to paste one that was annotated for the baffle plate.

 

[StevieOntario]

"Recall" for an auto in the US has a specific set of legal/regulatory requirements and obligations. Suspect manufacturers are going to avoid using that term unless they are required to by safety implications that define it. Still, it would be nice if Honda US wasn't so opaque about the non-Recall campaigns.

If this is about an engine issue, then unlikely to be Alliston specific since all '16 Civic engines (for US anyway, suspect same for Canada market cars) are coming from Anna, OH.

Incorrect, 1000/day for US and Canada are built in Alliston, Turbo is Anna, OH only.

 

[dick w]

I was just going by what Honda said:

Manufacturing
The 2016 Civic Sedan for the U.S. market will be produced at Honda's plants in Greensburg, Indiana and Allison, Ontario, Canada, using domestic and globally sourced parts. Its two new engines are produced in Anna, Ohio, at the largest automobile engine plant in Honda's global production network, and its highly precise CVT transmissions are assembled in Russells Point, Ohio, where two on-site wind turbines provide for upwards of 10 percent of the plant's power needs.

 

[j_illang]

Well, it's official now:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/honda-orders-stop-sale-on-2016-civic-official-recall-pending/

According to this it is only the 2.0 non-turbo engines.

Even though I'm looking at a Touring model, all these mounting issues (some small, some not so small) are making me nervous. Even if Honda fixes this, who wants mechanics doing major surgery on their brand-new cars? Cars with new engines they haven't even seen yet.

People say well, that's what you get for buying into an all-new design. But I've also been looking at the new 2016 Mazda Miata, which is also a complete head-to-toe re-design, and as near as I can tell there are almost no issues.

Wait 2 years until the storm passes.

 

[j_illang]

Only a tiny fraction of those are on dealer lots still. They sold 26k+ Civics just last month. But, yeah, the dealers will have an issue with unsellable inventory costing them floor plan money. VW dealers got a special dispensation for the diesels they are sitting on. But that's a far bigger problem than this and will surely last far longer.

how did you calc 26K

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