12 Second 1/4 Mile time - Street Tires Is it Doable?

[Myx]

Also about those tire weights. Those numbers I see posted at tire sellers aren't always accurate. And your current tire being worn obviously weighs a tiny bit less then it did new. Weigh them on your bathroom scale for shits and giggles.

On a side note let me know what you think of the Vredestein's. They look to have a nice balance between performance, ride quality and winter traction.

I weighed one of the 225/50-15 Kumho Ecsta AST's that I had removed. Tirerack states they weigh 21lbs. When I weighed it on the bathroom scale, it weighed in at 21.6lbs. I was surprised to see this since, just like you, I'd expect it to weigh less than 21lbs since it is used. So the new tires are 17lbs even and the old ones 21.6lbs, so a -4.6lbs reduction in weight. Or -4.5lb to kinda even it out.


Meanwhile, this is what the car looks like now.....below. I love the look of cars when they have the low profile look and little to no wheel gap. However, none of my cars/trucks look like this since I do this crap because I like how they feel when I significantly lighten the wheels/tires. I love GappleBees! Again, I never recommend what I do but I enjoy my cars like this. I can feel how it drives like this every time I step on the gas, whether it's lightly around town or all out on the highway.

I did do a couple very short WOT pulls and my traction control light was VERY active. It didn't matter if I did it from a dead stop or while I was already moving. Maybe the new tire 'frizzies' are not allowing it to get full grip just yet. I'm going to head out a bit and do some more moderate testing. If the traction control lights continues, I'll do a reflash later this evening. Fortunately for some of us, we have the Advanced VSA option. I'm currently at the lowest setting for Advanced VSA, which is 'Light Ignition Pullback, Moderate Throttle Pullback'. I'll ramp it up to 'Moderate Ignition Pullback, Moderate Throttle Pullback'. Will see how all this goes.


BTW: If you noticed, I haven't changed my exhaust back to stock......yet. I figured I'd change this one variable (the wheels only) and test on Wednesday. I'll probably put the stock exhaust back on Thursday.

Sponsored

 

[Myx]

Operation 'Air Tight' begans....

 

[Myx]

I figured I may as well gold wrap the intercooler to throttle body pipe while I am in here. The radiator blows right on it. It can't hurt right?. Oh well....

 

[Civics4Ever]

Man good luck hitting 12's. You've definitely gone in the right direction though. Too bad you have a hatch instead of a coupe, weight wise.

 

[gtman]

Speaking of weight reduction...

Hopefully not a stupid question Myx, but do you remove the spare tire and jack for your drag strip runs?

 

[CrippleRipple]

What, this whole time I thought you had it turned up! You're only on the lightest Advanced VSA setting?
I'm on the Moderate & I need the most Aggressive for sure.....I just worry about my stock catalytic converter.
You have that catless PRL downpipe right, get it done! lol

Crank that Advanced VSA to Aggressive! I like having it activated by cruise control so I can choose whether I need it or not which most of the time I do, poor converter!
Also found the car was slower if I used Advanced VSA & turned off the Honda button.....now I just leave the Honda button alone! I'm seriously launching with Coyote motored Mustangs, if it's a manual game over until 80mph+ for them. The Ford 10/AT is just as nasty though, still was leaving right with one w/ FBO's/suspension/500whp+ & slicks a few weekends ago......on my all season Continentals.

I'm still 50/50 on using Brake Hold to launch. It works perfectly 90% of the time but usually at the track or against something gnarly it will lag in just the slightest and cost me dearly. How do you launch?
Biggest thing for me is I am literally leaving at idle......you really can't brake boost or build much of any rpm to launch with. I did pull my 2 step down low so in neutral I can sound like a boss(mostly for the laughs) lol
Other than that it boggles my mind how well both 10th gen Civic & Accord automatics are so quick..........if you are that fast on the track that thing would be a beast on the roll!

+1 for the gap life lol....these big 19's & low profiles leave a decent gap as well but honestly I love the stock suspension on both the Si & now the Accord. Handle absolutely amazing stock while still leaving enough travel for everyday life, nothing like a Camry or any other comparable Sedans....heck it keeps up with BRZ's no problem stock around America's lightning lap. Reminds me of people ruining the handling on the S2000's back in the day, one of the best handling cars I've ever driven...even stock. Plus hard to find a good custom alignment shop or a place that will counter balance the car as well. Spent too much time messing with suspension, I'll let the engineers figure that out!

 

[Myx]

Speaking of weight reduction...

Hopefully not a stupid question Myx, but do you remove the spare tire and jack for your drag strip runs?

I used to have it in the car until fairly recently. I was at personal odds with myself, saying that it would be kinda like cheating but then I thought about my other cars. I don't have any spares in them either.
So, it sits in the garage now. No spare tire in the car.

What, this whole time I thought you had it turned up! You're only on the lightest Advanced VSA setting?
I'm on the Moderate & I need the most Aggressive for sure.....I just worry about my stock catalytic converter.
You have that catless PRL downpipe right, get it done! lol

@CrippleRipple I guess I wasn't understanding how it works properly. I thought it was a compromise of sorts. I thought the 'Best' setting was the one that allowed you to have little to no slip and stop there vs just going to the most aggressive setting.

So...for example, lets say my car made little or no tire slip without using Advanced VSA. Would putting Advanced VSA to it's most aggressive setting hurt performance?

Ok....lets say the car has a little bit to no slip on the mildest setting of Advanced VSA, would turning A-VSA all the way up to it's most aggressive setting hurt or help my cars performance?

I'm still at the middle setting but have no problem uploading the most aggressive setting before heading out today. The weather is not in my favor today though. The air density is one tick away from what I was hoping it'd be at. I may get lucky between 9-10pm tonight. This is all a test and learning at the moment anyways so who knows.


Yeah, let me know your thoughts on Advanced VSA. I'll take it to heart and apply what you'd think is best for my (or our) application. Thanks!

 

[Myx]

@CrippleRipple

Since you have an appreciation for bracket racing and mentioned it, I just decided yesterday I'll probably hit up some last events this year. While tooling around with the Civic today, I decided I'm going to bracket race my old school Subaru. It's a 1989 Subaru XT6 (AWD) aka Windslicer. It's the only one still N/A and oddly, it's my favorite.

I gold wrapped the intake and am going to make it receive cold air, like the Civic. I'll get more satisfaction beating some peeps in a 30 yr old beater. It's all about consistency, as you know. I miss bracket racing man. So thanks for bringing it up. Gonna see what I can do today about making it a hybrid SRI-CAi intake.

 

[CrippleRipple]

@CrippleRipple

Since you have an appreciation for bracket racing and mentioned it, I just decided yesterday I'll probably hit up some last events this year. While tooling around with the Civic today, I decided I'm going to bracket race my old school Subaru. It's a 1989 Subaru XT6 (AWD) aka Windslicer. It's the only one still N/A and oddly, it's my favorite.

I gold wrapped the intake and am going to make it receive cold air, like the Civic. I'll get more satisfaction beating some peeps in a 30 yr old beater. It's all about consistency, as you know. I miss bracket racing man. So thanks for bringing it up. Gonna see what I can do today about making it a hybrid SRI-CAi intake.

Dude! That is sick, love all of your license plates too! Those were very fun cars, my friend had one on a farm and it was a blast as kids!
Isn't that the one designed to actually be aerodynamic? You have way too many fun and unique cars man!

Sorry to hear about the wife and Cookie Monster! I know those feels, hope she is ok & insurance comes through(With an Accord.) Health is everything! Hope my bad luck didn't rub off!
If it makes you or her feel any better the girl who really messed me up on the bike years ago actually fled the country a week before trial! We'll see what this lastest rear ender does! lol

@CrippleRipple I guess I wasn't understanding how it works properly. I thought it was a compromise of sorts. I thought the 'Best' setting was the one that allowed you to have little to no slip and stop there vs just going to the most aggressive setting.

So...for example, lets say my car made little or no tire slip without using Advanced VSA. Would putting Advanced VSA to it's most aggressive setting hurt performance?

Ok....lets say the car has a little bit to no slip on the mildest setting of Advanced VSA, would turning A-VSA all the way up to it's most aggressive setting hurt or help my cars performance?

I'm still at the middle setting but have no problem uploading the most aggressive setting before heading out today. The weather is not in my favor today though. The air density is one tick away from what I was hoping it'd be at. I may get lucky between 9-10pm tonight. This is all a test and learning at the moment anyways so who knows.

Yeah, let me know your thoughts on Advanced VSA. I'll take it to heart and apply what you'd think is best for my (or our) application. Thanks!

It is very confusing, wish they were almost numbered! Their online help on it is the best way of describing it I've seen so far....but pretty much you trade more more Aggressive Ignition Cut for less & less throttle pullback/cut(why KTuner warned going over the Moderate Ignition Cut with a stock Catalytic Converter.) Throttle Pullback/Cut is what really fouls you up in normal VSA so this allows you to trade that throttle pullback for smooth power to the wheels. This is what my understanding is but I could be wrong. Below is a link and I will copy over their wording & charts:

http://www.ktuner.com/KTunerHelp/advanced_vsa_control_strategy.htm?ms=AkIEIQQEAQ==&st=MA==&sct=MA==&mw=MjQw

*Advanced VSA Control allows you to balance between the factory throttle pullback and ignition pullback during traction loss.

With quick acting ignition pullback the throttle pullback through the VSA system is much less aggressive and will keep you on the edge of traction without dropping boost pressure or hard hitting throttle drops.

Notes:
If you need to quickly disable this feature in the event you get a TPMS light telling you that your tires are not evenly pressured or you have to run on a spare tire, enabling Cruise Main will disable Advanced VSA Control.

You must enable the Advanced VSA option under Quick Enables in order for these settings to be used. Otherwise standard VSA operation remains.

VSA Button:
The VSA button still has some adjustment to how aggressive the ECU pulls throttle back. In normal operation the ECU will more aggressively pull throttle. With the standard disable the ECU will dampen the throttle pullback. With the "pedal dance" full VSA disable the ECU will not pull back throttle, but Advanced VSA will still do its job controlling ignition.

Advanced VSA Example:
From the factory the VSA system intervenes with mostly throttle pullback during a slip event. As pictured below when traction breaks loose the ECU overcompensates by pulling throttle to regain traction. The green line represents throttle command, which you can see is being aggressively pulled back during wheel slip.

With Advanced VSA Enabled, set to Aggressive Ignition Pullback/Light Throttle Pullback, you can see in the below graph that RPM and VSS have little bumps where traction is on the edge of breaking. Using the more aggressive ignition pullback settings the ECU's VSA system is able to keep traction and maintain power to the ground during the run. In this example there was no throttle intervention at all, but you may see a few percent pulled back to maintain the edge of traction during the pull.

Hope this helps! I think it will make a good bit of difference, I saw crazy gains from stock to just the middle setting.
Wish I could figure out what works best with the VSA Button but I think I'm on the edge of these tires! Don't think I'll get much quicker with these. This should hopefully cut your 60 foot under 2.0 and get that 13.0 or under!

 

[Myx]

Man good luck hitting 12's. You've definitely gone in the right direction though. Too bad you have a hatch instead of a coupe, weight wise.

You got a point. But I'd save about 20lbs of curb weight according to Honda site.
EX (CVT-Hatch) - 2917lbs
Coupe (CVT) - 2897lbs

Less weight is less weight though.

 

[Myx]

Dude! That is sick, love all of your license plates too! Those were very fun cars, my friend had one on a farm and it was a blast as kids!
Isn't that the one designed to actually be aerodynamic? You have way too many fun and unique cars man!

Sorry to hear about the wife and Cookie Monster! I know those feels, hope she is ok & insurance comes through(With an Accord.) Health is everything! Hope my bad luck didn't rub off!
If it makes you or her feel any better the girl who really messed me up on the bike years ago actually fled the country a week before trial! We'll see what this lastest rear ender does! lol



It is very confusing, wish they were almost numbered! Their online help on it is the best way of describing it I've seen so far....but pretty much you trade more more Aggressive Ignition Cut for less & less throttle pullback/cut(why KTuner warned going over the Moderate Ignition Cut with a stock Catalytic Converter.) Throttle Pullback/Cut is what really fouls you up in normal VSA so this allows you to trade that throttle pullback for smooth power to the wheels. This is what my understanding is but I could be wrong. Below is a link and I will copy over their wording & charts:

http://www.ktuner.com/KTunerHelp/advanced_vsa_control_strategy.htm?ms=AkIEIQQEAQ==&st=MA==&sct=MA==&mw=MjQw

*Advanced VSA Control allows you to balance between the factory throttle pullback and ignition pullback during traction loss.

With quick acting ignition pullback the throttle pullback through the VSA system is much less aggressive and will keep you on the edge of traction without dropping boost pressure or hard hitting throttle drops.

Yeah, I was a bit confused, even after reading through the Ktuner site's literature. I understand what it's doing but wasn't sure if simply putting it to the most aggressive would yield what I'm looking for. I'll keep it at the mid-setting for this afternoon. I'll put it at the most aggressive next month through December, when I'm really trying to.....well....really testing I should say, how the car performs. Thanks man!

Oh yeah, the Subaru XT6 was the most aerodynamic car in the world at the time it came out. 0.29 coefficient of drag, still good by today's standards. It's one of the ugliest cars I have ever seen but when I read how purpose built it was for cutting through the wind, I fell in love. It's just so focused. Along with a LOT of weird and unique stuff about it. Haven't seen another one on the road in the 15yrs that I've owned it. This is the only car of the bunch I'm not getting rid of....ever. Ewww!

As for the Misses, she's ok. Will be picking her car up next month so shes driving mine for the moment. No trials! She was born in Puerto Rico so if she fled to there, it's not another country. Maybe if you asked Trump...I dunno, she may get deported to Puerto Rico. She'd good though. Thanks!

 

[CrippleRipple]

Yeah, I was a bit confused, even after reading through the Ktuner site's literature. I understand what it's doing but wasn't sure if simply putting it to the most aggressive would yield what I'm looking for. I'll keep it at the mid-setting for this afternoon. I'll put it at the most aggressive next month through December, when I'm really trying to.....well....really testing I should say, how the car performs. Thanks man!

As for the Misses, she's ok. Will be picking her car up next month so shes driving mine for the moment. No trials! She was born in Puerto Rico so if she fled to there, it's not another country. Maybe if you asked Trump...I dunno, she may get deported to Puerto Rico. She'd good though.

You sir need the Aggressive Ignition, you are on the edge per the literature!
The difference between the Light & Moderate was very big so I can't imagine the Aggressive! I always remember when I don't have it on and light the tires up, even just a quick stab to hit a short on ramp or merging and this thing is quick with the torque. I'm sure people around me are like what is Speed Racers problem, smoking tires going 30-50mph lol
So I end up using it a lot......I'm just hoping the cat doesn't come apart on me one day......Advanced VSA is addicting bro!

Had me rolling on that last bit! Why would you run, you got hit? Iol

I meant the very (American born) young lady joined the Navy the day of her deposition and they fast tracked her deployment(back when they were taking any & everyone.)
She was on an aircraft carrier headed to the Pacific somewhere, this was a big case and usually is not allowed to happen but the Judge just happened to be retired Navy & possible/maybe/definitely signed off.......Oldest trick in the book!
No fault state and the overwhelming medical even with insurance had me about to lose everything for the third time so they know you can't wait till she was back in 4-7 years. Took what I could get and moved on, it barely paid off what I owed in medical and left nothing for the rest of my life. The 7 year anniversary was last Saturday 9/21. So now this new accident 7/02/19 where I was rear ended is going to be interesting, claimed full responsibility and medical is still on
my shoulders until we go to court or settle. Either side has 2 years in Kansas to make moves.....

Sorry, I ramble now from the TBI I got bouncing down the road on my helmet at 45mph! lol

 

[Myx]

@CrippleRipple. You are too funny man.

I'm at the track now but am packing it up. Ran 3x. Temp between 76-78f.

[email protected]. 2.305 60ft
[email protected]. 2.277 60ft
[email protected]. 2.271 60ft

So that Is where I am at now. I could understand my 60ft maybe being lower and even my 1/4 mile time as well. However, my trap speed is down by 1--1.5mph. Temps ain't that much different than my best runs.

So it's back to the drawing board. I'm going to reflash to exactly what I had when Derek last tuned it. Which no changes. Not even to advanced VS A. Need to decipher what's up with my trap speed if nothing else.

I probably won't run again until next Friday. This Friday, I'm taking the 'Wndslcr' out to see what it does. Hehe!

 

[CrippleRipple]

@CrippleRipple. You are too funny man.

I'm at the track now but am packing it up. Ran 3x. Temp between 76-78f.

[email protected]. 2.305 60ft
[email protected]. 2.277 60ft
[email protected]. 2.271 60ft

So that Is where I am at now. I could understand my 60ft maybe being lower and even my 1/4 mile time as well. However, my trap speed is down by 1--1.5mph. Temps ain't that much different than my best runs.

So it's back to the drawing board. I'm going to reflash to exactly what I had when Derek last tuned it. Which no changes. Not even to advanced VS A. Need to decipher what's up with my trap speed if nothing else.

I probably won't run again until next Friday. This Friday, I'm taking the 'Wndslcr' out to see what it does. Hehe!

That's the track, you're always nailing that tree man! Sucks, just not your night!
At least you tried, it's hard to find anyone that even wants to go to the track anymore.

Heck , I never even got under 14.0 seconds in the Si with the TSP tune. I know I never raced under 90F but it sucked!

I've seen the wind affect numbers like this or even just the surface that day. I know they don't prep too much for Test n' Tune nights here but will for actual races. Besides staying out of the grooves and hoping the temps don't make the track a greasy mess. The cold is good for power but not so much for traction!
My friend that brackets every weekend with a Vbox style of data recorder that syncs with a wind meter thing on their camper/trailer....really cool.
Their older father can call times like I've never seen.
He tells them what they need to run and they do it.....works 90% of the time. Very interesting guy to talk to about track surfaces, air density & etc....he's a gnarly old guy and we have matching canes lol

Point is the track is not easy and the fact you did 13.4 in a 1.5T CVT is amazing with just bolt on's! You're beating 99% of Type R's & Si's I've seen run & an even right there with an Si running 13.3 with Flex Fuel, TSP Stage 2 tune, Cobra CAI, Rear Engine Mount & Tires. You'd destroy people on the roll I think and you would definitely have a little monster with Flex Fuel!

It's all in that 60 foot & a good day! You've got the skill & mph!

 

[Myx]

That's the track, you're always nailing that tree man! Sucks, just not your night!
At least you tried, it's hard to find anyone that even wants to go to the track anymore.

Heck , I never even got under 14.0 seconds in the Si with the TSP tune. I know I never raced under 90F but it sucked!

I've seen the wind affect numbers like this or even just the surface that day. I know they don't prep too much for Test n' Tune nights here but will for actual races. Besides staying out of the grooves and hoping the temps don't make the track a greasy mess. The cold is good for power but not so much for traction!
My friend that brackets every weekend with a Vbox style of data recorder that syncs with a wind meter thing on their camper/trailer....really cool.
Their older father can call times like I've never seen.
He tells them what they need to run and they do it.....works 90% of the time. Very interesting guy to talk to about track surfaces, air density & etc....he's a gnarly old guy and we have matching canes lol

Point is the track is not easy and the fact you did 13.4 in a 1.5T CVT is amazing with just bolt on's! You're beating 99% of Type R's & Si's I've seen run & an even right there with an Si running 13.3 with Flex Fuel, TSP Stage 2 tune, Cobra CAI, Rear Engine Mount & Tires. You'd destroy people on the roll I think and you would definitely have a little monster with Flex Fuel!

It's all in that 60 foot & a good day! You've got the skill & mph!

Big thanks! It's not over. I uploaded the original tune back on that I previously have been running. I'm not tinkering with it until I get some data from more runs. I plan on running next Friday. Although, there are supossed to be record high temps midweek, temps are supposed to drop like a rock by next Friday. How low remains to be seen.

I've never been one for excuses so the 13.8's are what they are. I have some ideas but I should've left the tune alone until I tested the effects of the tires. Will see either way! Looking forward to your runs if you hit the track soon.

Sponsored