1.5T Non Si vs 1.5T Si

Unity Performance

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As someone with a 2018 6MT Sport Hatch in Canada, i love the bodystyle, but i really wish i had the LSD. Living in Winter most of the year, it would be really nice to have a more solid front end in terms of traction. Plus the better suspension setup is a +1 for Granny/Racer duality

If there was a Hatchback 10th gen SI, i would've bought that in a heartbeat. The Sedan looks pretty decent IMHO, but the Wing could go, and swap for a ducktail.

Use Good Gas (i use Ultra 94 from PetroCanada on my TSP Stage 1 Tune. Shell 91 was alright, and Husky 94 if i can't find Ultra 94)
Have been contemplating adding a Hatch to the fleet, and if it's an MT then we're definitely adding the M Factory LSD:

http://www.teammfactory.com/catalog/partno/MF-TRS-05FC

Great to see a fellow Canadian, focusing on suspension components too! If you don't want to add a LSD just yet, considering adding the Anti Lift Kit by Whiteline, it will get rid of the compliance of the thin stamped steel mount and rubber bushings at the rear of the front lower control arm, adding billet mounts + poly bushings. It's been our favorite front suspension mod on our Si, and CTR :)

https://unity-performance.com/products/whiteline-anti-lift-kit
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Shingo_FK7

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I have a 2017 2.0 at the moment and I'm planning to get rid of it towards the end of the year for a 1.5T in a manual. I've done some research on this forum and found out that the internals of the non si 1.5t are not as strong as the Si internals. I wasn't aware of this before and was under the assumptions that they're basically the same engine, but with a different turbo. Whichever one I get plan to modify and my goal would be around 240-250 whp. Is that sustainable on a the non si 1.5t given I drive almost 30,000km per year? Generally, I drive like a grandma, but I will have some aggressive bursts here and there and maybe a couple of races here and there. I don't plan on doing any sort of tracking or autox in this car.

I would normally just go for the Si, but the sport hatchback with the 6mt is right within my price range whereas the Si is about $2500 more than I would ideally like to spend. Further, the hatchback looks far better and I really want a hatchback.

So in your opinion, with my power goals, would you suggest going for the Si with the stronger internals or am I okay sticking with the hatchback?

BTW I'm in Canada, so the hatchback isn't as barebones as it is down in the states.
I have a 1.5T hatch and I was pushing 250hp easily with the powermetrics non-si stage 2 tune. Got a custom tune from mofab in my area and am now at 330hp on stock block. It’s really whether you like the hatch or not. I was running the stage 2 tune from powermetrics for about 1000 miles and tsp stage 1 for like 2,000 miles. It just depends on if you want to spend a little extra to get where you want to be power wise.
 

Crough

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I was at about 225hp at the wheels on my non-Si and threw a rod through the block at 37k miles. Based on your goals, I would get the Si.
 

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Have been contemplating adding a Hatch to the fleet, and if it's an MT then we're definitely adding the M Factory LSD:

http://www.teammfactory.com/catalog/partno/MF-TRS-05FC

Great to see a fellow Canadian, focusing on suspension components too! If you don't want to add a LSD just yet, considering adding the Anti Lift Kit by Whiteline, it will get rid of the compliance of the thin stamped steel mount and rubber bushings at the rear of the front lower control arm, adding billet mounts + poly bushings. It's been our favorite front suspension mod on our Si, and CTR :)

https://unity-performance.com/products/whiteline-anti-lift-kit
I'll bring my hatch by when I get it back from Andrew if you want a guinea pig :)

We're also adding an LSD. I have a Wavetrac on the way.
 

ivanCivix

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I was at about 225hp at the wheels on my non-Si and threw a rod through the block at 37k miles. Based on your goals, I would get the Si.
O. T.
Sorry to hear this.
Can you specific more details about it?
 


Unity Performance

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I'll bring my hatch by when I get it back from Andrew if you want a guinea pig :)

We're also adding an LSD. I have a Wavetrac on the way.
Very cool, that's also a great option! Lessons from your build will certainly help :)

There's very limited talk about LSD installs on non-Si, and CTR. Perhaps this will generate more interest!
 

ivanCivix

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This should have every detail you need. If you want to know anything more, feel free to ask.
I tried to send you a pm but I'm not allowed somehow.

Sorry for the off topic.
You could post in the gtman' survey to help us.

I was wondering what kind of tune were running.
You wrote that have dyno measuraments of various mods. I would appreciate if you could attach the latest here.

Last question are you from Canada?

Thank you and good luck!
 

Crough

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I tried to send you a pm but I'm not allowed somehow.

Sorry for the off topic.
You could post in the gtman' survey to help us.

I was wondering what kind of tune were running.
You wrote that have dyno measuraments of various mods. I would appreciate if you could attach the latest here.

Last question are you from Canada?

Thank you and good luck!
I intent to post about my experience once I have sufficient information.

My built block should be finished soon, and once it is installed my mechanic will perform a proper teardown of the expired engine which will be uninstalled at that time. That should give me important information on what failed, and why.

I was running a custom tune, which (as I understand it) is required by the PRL CAI (Race MAF) bolt-on that I had installed.

Attached are my most recent pulls. I drove on this setup for months before the engine expired. There was no warning, and the engine expired while accelerating (slowly) from a stop at a red light at approximately 5mph. I had an oil change the day before the engine expired, and after the oil change took a 300 mile road trip with no issues.

Edit: Sorry, it's on my profile to the left of all my posts but to clarify, I am not in Canada. Los Angeles, California, USA.

Honda Civic 10th gen 1.5T Non Si vs 1.5T Si 2018 Civic 1.5t 6MT
 
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OilChange123

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I intent to post about my experience once I have sufficient information.

My built block should be finished soon, and once it is installed my mechanic will perform a proper teardown of the expired engine which will be uninstalled at that time. That should give me important information on what failed, and why.

I was running a custom tune, which (as I understand it) is required by the PRL CAI (Race MAF) bolt-on that I had installed.

Attached are my most recent pulls. I drove on this setup for months before the engine expired. There was no warning, and the engine expired while accelerating (slowly) from a stop at a red light at approximately 5mph. I had an oil change the day before the engine expired, and after the oil change took a 300 mile road trip with no issues.

Edit: Sorry, it's on my profile to the left of all my posts but to clarify, I am not in Canada. Los Angeles, California, USA.

2018 Civic 1.5t 6MT.png
I'm not an expert, but from the reading I've done here it seems like your torque curve is too far to the left? I believe people have mentioned that pushing peak torque to the far right keeps things reliable and puts less stress on the internals.
 


Crough

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I'm not an expert, but from the reading I've done here it seems like your torque curve is too far to the left? I believe people have mentioned that pushing peak torque to the far right keeps things reliable and puts less stress on the internals.
I was unaware, but that would make sense. I will discuss that with my mechanic when we do the new tune, but the new built block should be strong enough to handle whatever I throw at it.
 

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I'm not an expert, but from the reading I've done here it seems like your torque curve is too far to the left? I believe people have mentioned that pushing peak torque to the far right keeps things reliable and puts less stress on the internals.
That is a really flat torque curve, yeah. You'd normally see it start around 125-140 lbft and then hit peak torque around 3000-3500 RPM. Seems like his green trace is maybe the starting point. Those later plots are making 200 lbft at 2500 RPM which is quite a lot.
 

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Crough,

That's not the really the proper torque curve for engine/transmission longevity. I'm sure it felt potent off the line but as the others have said, your tuner needed to have it softer down low.

As far as your failure my guess is you were probably putting a lot of stress on the rods leading up to the ultimate low speed failure you experienced.
 
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Crough

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Crough,

That's 100% not the proper torque curve for engine/transmission longevity. I'm sure it felt potent off the line but as the others have said, your tuner needed to have it softer down low.

As far as your failure my guess is you were putting a lot of stress on the rods leading up to the ultimate low speed failure you experienced.

Have you considered getting a remote tune with either of the USA's top 10th gen tuners (D-Rob or John Vega)?
I appreciate your insight. It certainly did feel potent, but that wasn't necessarily my goal. I was clear that longevity was a goal of mine when modifying and tuning the car.

However, although it was an expensive mistake and has caused me great inconvenience, I don't want to place any blame on my mechanic. Ultimately, it was my ignorance that cost me. Lesson learned, gotta pay to play, etc. I get it.

I reached out to DRob and did not hear back. I know he's busy, so I'm not casting aspersions. To be quite honest, I do not know how remote tuning works. I don't own the Hondata Hardware device, because I was under the (mistaken) impression that I would install my boltons, pay for a one time tune, and be done with it. I assume I would need to own the device to install the file that would be sent to me.

Edit: To your edit, I think you are probably right about my engine failure. It makes sense that accumulated stress on the rods built up over time. I would say that my driving style is 90% driving like a grandpa and 10% spirited driving. I am sure that the occasional spirited pulls, coupled with the torque down low, eventually caused the failure. I'm interested to see what information the teardown of the expired block reveals.
 
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I appreciate your insight. It certainly did feel potent, but that wasn't necessarily my goal. I was clear that longevity was a goal of mine when modifying and tuning the car.

However, although it was an expensive mistake and has caused me great inconvenience, I don't want to place any blame on my mechanic. Ultimately, it was my ignorance that cost me. Lesson learned, gotta pay to play, etc. I get it.

I reached out to DRob and did not hear back. I know he's busy, so I'm not casting aspersions. To be quite honest, I do not know how remote tuning works. I don't own the Hondata Hardware device, because I was under the (mistaken) impression that I would install my boltons, pay for a one time tune, and be done with it. I assume I would need to own the device to install the file that would be sent to me.
Ah. So they created the tune and flashed it for you with their device. Got it.

Yes, for a remote tune you need to own your own device. The tuner has you run datalogs that you send them. They send you back revisions until the tune is set up perfectly for your bolt ons/needs/driving style.
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