1.5T, first oil change at 6500 miles, oil smells like fuel, flows like water

CivicXI

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Thin oil, just like water, is not compressible.

When the engine is within design tolerances, thicker oil will have a hard time getting into the smaller passageways and may even hydrodynamically stall.
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Charley-TX

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The question is does honda use 0-20 because of very small tolerances or because of needed improved fuel economy.
It robs less engine power to pump thinner oil than heavier.
 

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1.5T, first oil change at 6500 miles, oil smells like fuel, flows like water.

2017 EX-T
changed the olat 6500 miles, still had 40% on the oil indicator.
As mentioned in the title... the whole garage smelled like I spilled gasoline on the floor.
After the oil set in the drain bucket and was not super hot,when I poured it in recycle container it was flowing like water, not like oil.
I am in Texas we don't get really cold winter temps. I am thinking of switching to 5w-30 for the next oil change.
I am convinced that Honda choose 0w-20 to accomodate the cloder northern states with sub freezing temps.
Agree or disagree?
Prevailing theory is that if your oil spent any amount of time cooling off or following an idle condition, there will be a fuel smell. It's a characteristic we've seen with just about every DI platform out there. In general, those who drain their oil hot and/or with minimal downtime aren't seeing the same issues.

My hunch is that if you were to drive your car 5-10 minutes on the freeway, then inspect your oil, your fuel smell would dissipate significantly. Under those conditions, the fuel is siphoned out via the PCV/oil separator where it's subsequently burned off.

My 2 cents...
 

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The question is does honda use 0-20 because of very small tolerances or because of needed improved fuel economy.
It robs less engine power to pump thinner oil than heavier.
They design their bearing parameters around the type of oil they use, not the other way around.
 
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Charley-TX

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The car gets plenty hwy drive. I am at around 23000 miles in one-year ownership. I change my oil in every car/truck I own/ed. The civic is not the first DI. BMW 328 never had fuel smell, it uses a much heavier oil, its oil does not seem watery.
At 23000 miles I am experiencing the same issue at oil change, but no concerned much anymore.
I hope you are correct about the bearing & oil relationship.
 


CivicXI

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The question is does honda use 0-20 because of very small tolerances or because of needed improved fuel economy.
It robs less engine power to pump thinner oil than heavier.
Why can't it be both?
 

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Thin oil, just like water, is not compressible.

When the engine is within design tolerances, thicker oil will have a hard time getting into the smaller passageways and may even hydrodynamically stall.
Looking at actual manufacturer "typical" characteristics, the viscosity difference between hot 20 weight oil and 30 weight oil is rather small. It also varies. It will vary between different lots of the same oil of the same manufacturer, and it will vary even more between manufacturers. The viscosity of hot oil (100 C, 212 F) of the same brand will vary a little for the same hot weight but different cold weights (e.g 0W30, 5W30, 10W30).

For example the hot kinematic viscosity of one brand 0W20 oil could be 8.9 cSt and another brand 5W30 oil 9.5 cSt. To get to the factor of almost 1.5 in hot viscosity increase, you need 40 weight. There is no car engine that is built so precisely that 0W20 would be OK, but 5W30 would not. It's the same. Depending on usage, driving style and service intervals (all within manufacturer recommendations) this 5W30 oil could in some cases become thinner than this 0W20 oil. Using one vs. another for a long time could maybe make a subtle difference in wear after 200k miles, and some small percentage of fuel mileage difference.

I would be more careful going the other way (to thinner oils) relative to manufacturer recommendations. But there is no car engine where jumping up one or two grades would harm anything at all except a bit of fuel mileage.
 

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They design their bearing parameters around the type of oil they use, not the other way around.
0w20 is to meet CAFE fuel economy standards in the US, 0w30 and 5w30 are options for this engine in Europe as they do not have the same strict standards, engine internal tolerances are the same here and there so take that for what it's worth. Did my 1st change at 1500 miles to 5w30. It's not gonna blow up.....LOL
 

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0w20 is nice if you live in a year round COLD climate, impressive cold flow.
 

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0w20 is to meet CAFE fuel economy standards in the US, 0w30 and 5w30 are options for this engine in Europe as they do not have the same strict standards, engine internal tolerances are the same here and there so take that for what it's worth. Did my 1st change at 1500 miles to 5w30. It's not gonna blow up.....LOL
It's true this engine accepts a wide range of oil weights. But it shouldn't negate the fact that Honda's R&D was focused on using 0W20 from the get-go. Per your comment, I'd be wary of using a heavier weighted oil in the winter months - particularly in sub-freezing climates.

Will it blow up? Of course not lol. But repeated cold starts could accelerate ring & bearing wear long term. We'd need a larger base of UOAs to confirm (which we likely will not get).
 
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hawk02

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It's true this engine accepts a wide range of oil weights. But it shouldn't negate the fact that Honda's R&D was focused on using 0W20 from the get-go. Per your comment, I'd be wary of using a heavier weighted oil in the winter months - particularly in sub-freezing climates.

Will it blow up? Of course not lol. But repeated cold starts could accelerate ring & bearing wear long term. We'd need a larger base of UOAs to confirm (which we likely will note get).
YUP, for fuel economy standards and an unmodified engine. Start increasing boost and 0w20 will let you down over time......
 

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For the OP:

By contrast, I just posted my readout in the adjacent thread. Nearly 8K on my sample with no signs of problems. In fact, almost zero fuel was discovered.

I made sure the sample was pulled within 30 minutes of driving 10+ miles. Hope that helps.

Honda Civic 10th gen 1.5T, first oil change at 6500 miles, oil smells like fuel, flows like water upload_2018-8-10_15-16-59-
 

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Besides the oil issue. Isn't fuel dilution in the oil a common thing for direct injection engines, like our 1.5t?
People always say, in a direct injection car, don't use them "extended performance" oil/filters because while the filter does the job of filtering debris from oil, the fuel dilution will just pass through and eventually build up in the oil from dilution.
 

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For the OP:

By contrast, I just posted my readout in the adjacent thread. Nearly 8K on my sample with no signs of problems. In fact, almost zero fuel was discovered.

I made sure the sample was pulled within 30 minutes of driving 10+ miles. Hope that helps.

upload_2018-8-10_15-16-59-png.png
Blackstone doesn’t measure fuel diltuion, they estimate it. And they are wrong most of the time. Known fact. Viscosity being that low you’re looking at 5%+ fuel dilution
 
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Charley-TX

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Oil filter only catches particles in the oil (to a certain degree), it is a paper filter element. It does nothing to fuel in the oil.
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