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- May 4, 2017
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- Ireland
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- 2017 Honda Civic 1.5 Sport+GT White
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Although I am using Amsoil SS specifically, this thread is intended for those who are wondering about a bit higher oil viscosities, than 0w20.
Before I get into oil and my experience details, I will give some theory and justification, why I chose higher viscosity oil. Keep in mind the theory is mine and is based on what I read and experienced over the years.
First of all, even though those engines are supposedly designed to work with 0w-20 oils, it does not mean, this is the only oil allowed and the engine will get damaged if we choose different viscosity.
Why? Because in Europe, Asia and possibly everywhere outside USA, instruction manual either specifically mentions 0w30 or 5w30 as alternative to 0w20, or just mentions to use an oil meeting API SN standard (which could be anywhere from 0w20 to 15w50 as far as I am concerned...).
Having said that, 0w20 was created to minimise fuel consumption in modern cars. This is what even Honda puts specifically in the instruction manual... If you search this forum section, I have created a thread answering what oil grades are allowed in European 1.5t Honda engines (screenshot of the manual is included there).
Nothing less, nothing more - 0w20 was created to reduce fuel consumption. You will not read anywhere, that it was designed to provide better wear protection. That is not to say, that the modern full synthetic 0w20 oils provide much worse wear protection in general. It all depends on your driving style, ambient temperature and the oil itself (quality of detergents).
Which brings me to why I chose to run higher viscosity oil:
- I am a dynamic driver and I love acceleration. Once oil is warmed up, I take every opportunity to rev and accelerate dynamically. On European highways, I drive 120-160 km/h which brings this car's rpm's at > 3k rpm. > 3k rpm is not Eco driving. Revving to redline is not ECO driving,
- I wanted to run full synthetic with great wear protection base. I had doubts (confirmed by the dealer) that European Type 2.0 0w20 Honda oil (that they put to all petrol engines in Europe nowadays, starting from jazz I-vtec and ending on Type R civic) is not a full synthetic (cannot confirm that anywhere, though. Honda puts no details on the bottle). Also, I heard and read from many last generation Type-R owners, that it is not difficult to bring this oil to worryingly high temperatures, when driving hard for many minutes or going full spead ahead on highway for dozens of minutes or even hours.
Now I know 1.5 is not Honda's 2.0 300 bhp engine and I don't intend to be racing on tracks, however I do drive fast on highways. Next year I will be using German highways and this means I could end up driving > 160 km/h for extensive amounts of time,
- I wanted to counteract a bit the oil dilution problem. I did not notice oil increase before changing oil, however it smelled like gas - checked after 1600 km. So I figured, that during the 15000 km oil change intervals (that I intend to have), the 0w30 viscosity would be ideal. By the end of the interval the oil would be at the 0w20 range and I would be covered. I know, that those engines can run on 0w20 and 0w16 oils and Honda is experimenting with 0w10 oils in Japan, but... I am not your hypermiler, that wants to reach highest mpg no matter what... I am a case of a driver, that gives this engine a proper bashing every time I drive it.
- I still wanted the best protection on the cold starts and short journeys. My gf uses the car during week to drive to work - 12 km one way, city traffic. This means car only reaches operating temperature after she reaches her work or comes back home. This will be especially important in winter. Hence, 0 in xw30 is a must for me and even though, it will give me less protection during cold starts, I am confident, that full synthetic Amsoil will not be much worse than "synthetic blend" original Honda oil.
So, my findings after using 0w30 (Car currently has 2300 km on odometer):
- For now (10-20 degrees Celsius ambient temperature, June) I did not notice any differences in starting the car. The car starts with the same effort as on previous oil, and seems to take the same time to reach the coolant operating temperature. This is not a scientific measurement, just my observation. What I "think" I noticed is, that the engine is not as loud on cold (right after startup) - my initial impression. Will see in winter, how it behaves, although I did not have opportunity to run 0w-20 in winter so impossible to compare,
- Engine note has changed on higher revs... While it seems the sound is the same on low revs (up to 3-4k), it has a different note above that (and with full throttle). Previously, the sound was "metallic" and really unpleasant to me. It gave me creeps to the point I did not want to bash the car, as it did not sound healthy. Like it was begging me to stop and just drive ECO... Now the metallic sound is gone. It is a bit more throaty, but not a dramatic change. This is not to say that this means "better" for the engine or something like that, but... I can now hear the engine note, that actually invites me to discover it's limits and not be afraid of it...
- Fuel economy difference is impossible for me to observe. On average I had 6.5 l/100km on previous factory oil (average of 3 tanks), while on my first tank after change I got 6.5 litre... This tank was completely outside the city driving - motorways and country roads, a bit on ECO button but mostly without. Also, starting with this oil and tank I started properly opening her up , so... Lots of acceleration and redline.
Also, Honda admitted in the early 2000's, that there is 1.5% difference in gas consumption between 5w30 and 0w20... Using 0w30 makes this difference even smaller, as the highest fuel consumption is when the engine is cold... Minor fuel consumption difference (if any) will probably be apparent for those that are driving very short distances and do not allow the engine to properly warm up.
For now, I did not notice anything that would get me worried. I will update this thread with time and answer any questions you have.
Extract from European Honda Manual:
Before I get into oil and my experience details, I will give some theory and justification, why I chose higher viscosity oil. Keep in mind the theory is mine and is based on what I read and experienced over the years.
First of all, even though those engines are supposedly designed to work with 0w-20 oils, it does not mean, this is the only oil allowed and the engine will get damaged if we choose different viscosity.
Why? Because in Europe, Asia and possibly everywhere outside USA, instruction manual either specifically mentions 0w30 or 5w30 as alternative to 0w20, or just mentions to use an oil meeting API SN standard (which could be anywhere from 0w20 to 15w50 as far as I am concerned...).
Having said that, 0w20 was created to minimise fuel consumption in modern cars. This is what even Honda puts specifically in the instruction manual... If you search this forum section, I have created a thread answering what oil grades are allowed in European 1.5t Honda engines (screenshot of the manual is included there).
Nothing less, nothing more - 0w20 was created to reduce fuel consumption. You will not read anywhere, that it was designed to provide better wear protection. That is not to say, that the modern full synthetic 0w20 oils provide much worse wear protection in general. It all depends on your driving style, ambient temperature and the oil itself (quality of detergents).
Which brings me to why I chose to run higher viscosity oil:
- I am a dynamic driver and I love acceleration. Once oil is warmed up, I take every opportunity to rev and accelerate dynamically. On European highways, I drive 120-160 km/h which brings this car's rpm's at > 3k rpm. > 3k rpm is not Eco driving. Revving to redline is not ECO driving,
- I wanted to run full synthetic with great wear protection base. I had doubts (confirmed by the dealer) that European Type 2.0 0w20 Honda oil (that they put to all petrol engines in Europe nowadays, starting from jazz I-vtec and ending on Type R civic) is not a full synthetic (cannot confirm that anywhere, though. Honda puts no details on the bottle). Also, I heard and read from many last generation Type-R owners, that it is not difficult to bring this oil to worryingly high temperatures, when driving hard for many minutes or going full spead ahead on highway for dozens of minutes or even hours.
Now I know 1.5 is not Honda's 2.0 300 bhp engine and I don't intend to be racing on tracks, however I do drive fast on highways. Next year I will be using German highways and this means I could end up driving > 160 km/h for extensive amounts of time,
- I wanted to counteract a bit the oil dilution problem. I did not notice oil increase before changing oil, however it smelled like gas - checked after 1600 km. So I figured, that during the 15000 km oil change intervals (that I intend to have), the 0w30 viscosity would be ideal. By the end of the interval the oil would be at the 0w20 range and I would be covered. I know, that those engines can run on 0w20 and 0w16 oils and Honda is experimenting with 0w10 oils in Japan, but... I am not your hypermiler, that wants to reach highest mpg no matter what... I am a case of a driver, that gives this engine a proper bashing every time I drive it.
- I still wanted the best protection on the cold starts and short journeys. My gf uses the car during week to drive to work - 12 km one way, city traffic. This means car only reaches operating temperature after she reaches her work or comes back home. This will be especially important in winter. Hence, 0 in xw30 is a must for me and even though, it will give me less protection during cold starts, I am confident, that full synthetic Amsoil will not be much worse than "synthetic blend" original Honda oil.
So, my findings after using 0w30 (Car currently has 2300 km on odometer):
- For now (10-20 degrees Celsius ambient temperature, June) I did not notice any differences in starting the car. The car starts with the same effort as on previous oil, and seems to take the same time to reach the coolant operating temperature. This is not a scientific measurement, just my observation. What I "think" I noticed is, that the engine is not as loud on cold (right after startup) - my initial impression. Will see in winter, how it behaves, although I did not have opportunity to run 0w-20 in winter so impossible to compare,
- Engine note has changed on higher revs... While it seems the sound is the same on low revs (up to 3-4k), it has a different note above that (and with full throttle). Previously, the sound was "metallic" and really unpleasant to me. It gave me creeps to the point I did not want to bash the car, as it did not sound healthy. Like it was begging me to stop and just drive ECO... Now the metallic sound is gone. It is a bit more throaty, but not a dramatic change. This is not to say that this means "better" for the engine or something like that, but... I can now hear the engine note, that actually invites me to discover it's limits and not be afraid of it...
- Fuel economy difference is impossible for me to observe. On average I had 6.5 l/100km on previous factory oil (average of 3 tanks), while on my first tank after change I got 6.5 litre... This tank was completely outside the city driving - motorways and country roads, a bit on ECO button but mostly without. Also, starting with this oil and tank I started properly opening her up , so... Lots of acceleration and redline.
Also, Honda admitted in the early 2000's, that there is 1.5% difference in gas consumption between 5w30 and 0w20... Using 0w30 makes this difference even smaller, as the highest fuel consumption is when the engine is cold... Minor fuel consumption difference (if any) will probably be apparent for those that are driving very short distances and do not allow the engine to properly warm up.
For now, I did not notice anything that would get me worried. I will update this thread with time and answer any questions you have.
Extract from European Honda Manual:
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