1.5 non si air intake set up

[CIVICUK]

Just looking into modifications that i could perhaps do with the stock intake set up and the aftermarket intakes that are for our engines and i do have a question on them.

Why does the fk8 not require any CAI systems but a short ram product seems to be the most popular? Where as our engines get best results with a CAI like the prl cobra or 27won? Just curious to know why our engines have to seek for colder air other than the engine bay.

Any info woukd be nice to hear

Thanks!

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[Hondanickx]

The answer is simple the fk8 has a air duct from the front of the grill which it takes cold air from .The 1.5t doesn't and that's why they need to get cold air from the bottom.
Soon there Will be a similar air duct for the 1.5t Civic which also takes air from the front grill.

 

[CIVICUK]

The answer is simple the fk8 has a air duct from the front of the grill which it takes cold air from .The 1.5t doesn't and that's why they need to get cold air from the bottom.
Soon there Will be a similar air duct for the 1.5t Civic which also takes air from the front grill.

Soon?? ?? how soon? I have been looking into a D.I.Y project where i can feed cold air from the grill to the opening at the top of the airbox but its proving difficult, any ideas? Could i use a fk8 airbox and modify it to suit? ??

 

[Myx]

Why does the fk8 not require any CAI systems but a short ram product seems to be the most popular? Where as our engines get best results with a CAI like the prl cobra or 27won? Just curious to know why our engines have to seek for colder air other than the engine bay.

Any info woukd be nice to hear

Thanks!

Not everyone believe this is the case. I used to believe that but no longer do. In an N/A engine application, seeking colder air is absolutely an advantage over the engine bay (without colder air). Turbo applications, that is not the case. From my experience, the most important thing is that your intercooler is efficient enough to cool the incoming air down as much as possible. The harder you run your turbo, the hotter the air, the more efficient your intercooler has to be.

Cooler air is always better, no matter what. I can go into a long write-up on my points and there will be people for and against it. For simplicity sake, get yourself a SRI (Mishimoto, BMS, 27WON have good setups in my opinion). If you run an aftermarket tune (Ex: Ktuner Stage 2, TSP Stage 1, custom, etc), it's wise to upgrade to a more efficient intercooler.

You will be golden. You'll have zero worries of hydro-locking and outside of off-idle acceleration during heavy traffic in hot summer months, your car may perform on par of slightly better than the best CAI's out there. I say this from a lot of personal testing. There is nothing wrong with a CAI though. I'd be happy to put my SRI up against anyone's CAI in a dyno test anyday though. There's a lot more I can say on this but I talk to much as is.

Good luck!

 

[Myx]

Soon?? ?? how soon? I have been looking into a D.I.Y project where i can feed cold air from the grill to the opening at the top of the airbox but its proving difficult, any ideas? Could i use a fk8 airbox and modify it to suit? ??

Try this thread ---> Stock airbox modified for cold air
People have some 'cool' and creative ways on how to bring in cold air. Check it out when you get a chance.

 

[86salmon]

Try this thread ---> Stock airbox modified for cold air
People have some 'cool' and creative ways on how to bring in cold air. Check it out when you get a chance.

@Hondanickx might also be referring to his project here

There's a Facebook link in there with more

It's pretty nice fabrication work

 

[Hondanickx]

Soon?? ?? how soon? I have been looking into a D.I.Y project where i can feed cold air from the grill to the opening at the top of the airbox but its proving difficult, any ideas? Could i use a fk8 airbox and modify it to suit? ??

The fk8 intake duct isn't that large and doesn't come all the way up to the opening of the grill.
And those parts don't fit our civic's,i've looked into that before.They use different support bars and different hood with more space for air to go true.

I've been working on this for months,i have the first test pieces ready ,just waiting for some more parts to arrive and looking for a used front support bar to modify.

It's indeed very difficult to make some sort of air duct because there's very little room to work with.The biggest air restriction is the front support bar,which i will most likely either drill holes into or cut out a piece.But it's tricky to do this cause it still need to support the upper portion of the bumper so i can't weaken it much.

The FK8 radiator is lower and therefore has more room for the air duct.
Also going lower on the front grill to get air from is also possible but it will block more air from the radiator and ac condensor.The FK8 hood has a large dent in it to guide the air towards the airbox,the regular civic hood doesn't have that which yet again restricts room to work with.
All in all i think this will supply more then enough "ram cold air".

 

[CIVICUK]

The fk8 intake duct isn't that large and doesn't come all the way up to the opening of the grill.
And those parts don't fit our civic's,i've looked into that before.They use different support bars and different hood with more space for air to go true.

I've been working on this for months,i have the first test pieces ready ,just waiting for some more parts to arrive and looking for a used front support bar to modify.

It's indeed very difficult to make some sort of air duct because there's very little room to work with.The biggest air restriction is the front support bar,which i will most likely either drill holes into or cut out a piece.But it's tricky to do this cause it still need to support the upper portion of the bumper so i can't weaken it much.

The FK8 radiator is lower and therefore has more room for the air duct.
Also going lower on the front grill to get air from is also possible but it will block more air from the radiator and ac condensor.The FK8 hood has a large dent in it to guide the air towards the airbox,the regular civic hood doesn't have that which yet again restricts room to work with.
All in all i think this will supply more then enough "ram cold air".

Very impressive, you are onto something very good here, i take it you have access to a 3D printer? Are these 2 designs or is 1 piece for the underneath and other piece goes on the above? I would be very interested in this if it was to go into production. A nice carbon effect maybe?

 

[Hondanickx]

Very impressive, you are onto something very good here, i take it you have access to a 3D printer? Are these 2 designs or is 1 piece for the underneath and other piece goes on the above? I would be very interested in this if it was to go into production. A nice carbon effect maybe?

Thanks and no i don't have acces to a 3d printer. This was all done by hand ,shaping foam , making test pieces out of metal ,and doing this about 3 times over again untill it was perfect.I made molds for all pieces and will be making them out of carbon fiber .
This is 1 design it has a top and lower portion and it will also involves cutting the plastic shroud .

As for the air duct opening ,here's a quote from Eventuri about their airbox for the FK8

"The standard airbox draws in air from a single entry duct behind the front bumper. The size of this inlet is very small at approximately 35cm^2. The demand from the turbo results in this opening becoming a restriction. However, simply opening the filter inside the engine bay is detrimental since the filter position is directly behind the radiator and once the engine warms up - the filter will become quickly saturated with heat. Our intake system solves this issue by keeping the filter enclosed inside an airbox and adding a secondary feed which opens the inlet area by another 28cm^2. This coupled with our Venturi Filter stack for smooth flow results in an immediate gain across the entire RPM range of 14-20hp. "

The stock type R air duct is about 35cm² , PRL's cobra intake has a 4" opening which is 32cm², my air duct is 20.5cm long and is 1.8cm heigh which is 37cm².

You can see the whole build process on my FB page "H.N Innovations".

 

[Myx]

You can see the whole build process on my FB page "H.N Innovations".

Awesome! I approve of this message. H.N. Innovations

 

[kytos]

Not everyone believe this is the case. I used to believe that but no longer do. In an N/A engine application, seeking colder air is absolutely an advantage over the engine bay (without colder air). Turbo applications, that is not the case. From my experience, the most important thing is that your intercooler is efficient enough to cool the incoming air down as much as possible. The harder you run your turbo, the hotter the air, the more efficient your intercooler has to be.

Cooler air is always better, no matter what. I can go into a long write-up on my points and there will be people for and against it. For simplicity sake, get yourself a SRI (Mishimoto, BMS, 27WON have good setups in my opinion). If you run an aftermarket tune (Ex: Ktuner Stage 2, TSP Stage 1, custom, etc), it's wise to upgrade to a more efficient intercooler.

You will be golden. You'll have zero worries of hydro-locking and outside of off-idle acceleration during heavy traffic in hot summer months, your car may perform on par of slightly better than the best CAI's out there. I say this from a lot of personal testing. There is nothing wrong with a CAI though. I'd be happy to put my SRI up against anyone's CAI in a dyno test anyday though. There's a lot more I can say on this but I talk to much as is.

Good luck!

After intercooler temps are very important but once you are near to max out the turbo compressing hot air will kill some performance, you need to feed the turbo as easy as possible and not to try to make it work harder installing a SRI.

 

[Myx]

After intercooler temps are very important but once you are near to max out the turbo compressing hot air will kill some performance, you need to feed the turbo as easy as possible and not to try to make it work harder installing a SRI.

That is correct! There are two approaches to this.
1) Dial back the turbo so it works more in it's efficiency range and is not being over worked, near max, with an SRI or
2) Make the turbo work harder at or near max but send it cooler air while it's doing it via a CAI.

Here's the thing though. I've tested over and over different SRI setups vs CAI setups and the SRI's performed better in the 1/4 mile. Yes, the SRI's breathed warmer air coming off idle but while driving, there are many times that my SRI is either the same temp or lower than my after intercooler temps. And this is on and off boost. My setup is different than most but that's my observation.

Also, keep in mind that a turbo has to work harder pulling air in from a longer intake tube than a shorter one. That air has to travel from say a PRL CAI air filter by the foglight, past all the Cobra pipe's bends and through the length of tubing and maf sensor before travelling through the turbo inlet pipe itself. The air hitting all those bends and all that extra inner surface area creates resistance or pressure drop. It makes the turbo work harder sucking that air through. How much harder has to be measured. You can kinda see the effects of this in this link --->What makes the best intake.
This is why you will see racers have no intake, not even an air filter, attached to their turbo at a dragstrip. Even with the turbo breathing all the hot air in the world. Or else, they'd be adding piping to suck in air from a cooler spot, so the turbo don't have to work as hard.

People make assumptions that an SRI has to breathe in hot air. It doesn't! Bring in cool air to it, if possible, and have the best of both worlds.

I'm a CAI freak or SRI hybrid with cold air feeding it. Never was a fan of SRI's with N/A applications. Testing this on this Honda 1.5T has changed my mind and approach to all of that.

 

[dellyjoughnut]

I'll post this comment here since no one speaks about it. A warm intake merely serves to get a better fuel economy despite the handicap on performance.

 

[kytos]

That is correct! There are two approaches to this.
1) Dial back the turbo so it works more in it's efficiency range and is not being over worked, near max, with an SRI or
2) Make the turbo work harder at or near max but send it cooler air while it's doing it via a CAI.

Here's the thing though. I've tested over and over different SRI setups vs CAI setups and the SRI's performed better in the 1/4 mile. Yes, the SRI's breathed warmer air coming off idle but while driving, there are many times that my SRI is either the same temp or lower than my after intercooler temps. And this is on and off boost. My setup is different than most but that's my observation.

Also, keep in mind that a turbo has to work harder pulling air in from a longer intake tube than a shorter one. That air has to travel from say a PRL CAI air filter by the foglight, past all the Cobra pipe's bends and through the length of tubing and maf sensor before travelling through the turbo inlet pipe itself. The air hitting all those bends and all that extra inner surface area creates resistance or pressure drop. It makes the turbo work harder sucking that air through. How much harder has to be measured. You can kinda see the effects of this in this link --->What makes the best intake.
This is why you will see racers have no intake, not even an air filter, attached to their turbo at a dragstrip. Even with the turbo breathing all the hot air in the world. Or else, they'd be adding piping to suck in air from a cooler spot, so the turbo don't have to work as hard.

People make assumptions that an SRI has to breathe in hot air. It doesn't! Bring in cool air to it, if possible, and have the best of both worlds.

I'm a CAI freak or SRI hybrid with cold air feeding it. Never was a fan of SRI's with N/A applications. Testing this on this Honda 1.5T has changed my mind and approach to all of that.

I've had an SRI and now I have the 27won CAI. Once the engine bay heats in warm weather the SRI setup feels less energic and less responsive. However an SRI may work well in a dragstrip if it's not heatsoaked.

 

[CAPTS]

objective is to keep it as cool as possible & less work for the turbo

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