Exyia's Sport Touring Hatchback

[Browncoat3000]

I still see them? :\

That is weird. If I search by my specific car, which is what I've been doing, they don't come up. I guess it must be because they aren't exactly OEM size, being 215/45 vs 215/50.

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[BarracksSi]

That is weird. If I search by my specific car, which is what I've been doing, they don't come up. I guess it must be because they aren't exactly OEM size, being 215/45 vs 215/50.

Search by size instead of by car and you can get whatever you want.

 

[exyia]

courses this weekend! (yes, two of them)

Should be fun!

 

[exyia]

It's a shame I didn't have time to wash the car before the event, but loving this picture!

will post more later

 

[derbo904]

It's a shame I didn't have time to wash the car before the event, but loving this picture!

will post more later

I really dig the EVO rims on this car. Makes me want to get a set..lol

 

[exyia]

I really dig the EVO rims on this car. Makes me want to get a set..lol

It's funny that I always found stock Evo rims (of all kinds from any generation) all looked boring on Evo's, but strangely great on anything else.

I'm loving these too for how much you can swipe a set for, and I much prefer the styling. I don't see how people like the OEM Sport Touring/Si wheels - the bodywork is already busy enough, the wheels just make it look too busy imo. Simple and lightweight looking compliments the hatch much better imo

Man, what a weekend - finally got the Evo back. I'm exhausted. I'll share more soon, but the 10th gen Civic continues to impress me.

 

[exyia]

Late update because I've been so busy with other things and this weekend was actually extremely busy in general

On saturday I took the Civic back out to the autox - an actual event this time, not an open practice day.

I wasn't sure what to expect, as the national championships were just two weeks ago and the Houston region has TONS of competitive drivers that would have attended.

I invited out another Evo X buddy of mine (his going through a motor build) to come co-drive the new Civic, and he's never driven ANY Civic before, so he was curious about what the fandom was all about. And that I kept telling him the 10th gen Civic reminds me of a stock Evo X. I will NEVER shut up how good this chassis feels.

First run was so laughable I didn't even bother putting it in the video. I forgot to consider my previous autox event was after a 1.5 hour drive so the tires had plenty of heat to put up a good first effort.

But NOT today...boy the tires were COLD - which will be ironic later...

The car was sloppy and all over place on the first run. Whatever. Shrugged it off and moved on.

My co-driver, Dan, managed to bump one of the paddles during his first run, and then was stuck and confused in manual mode in a - yet again - far too quiet car.

By run two, things started going well. Tires started to have some grip again and matched the eagerness of the car to carve some corners.

By the end of run 2, I'm starting to hit the same limits and minor frustrations on the car -
1. It's too damn quiet, so I can't tell what the engine is doing
2. Lack of front end camber

But despite these shortcomings, the chassis and suspension are just SO damn eager to please in this car. I still can't get over how good it is. It baffles me that so many "performance" cars out there don't have the nimble-ness that this "basic" Civic has. A WRX/STi doesn't feel this nimble. A BRZ/FRS edges it out obviously, but not by a huge amount. It's an agility and eagerness I haven't felt in a car since my Evo X - I know I said that before, but it's good enough that it's worth mentioning. I am not surprised at all that the Type-R performs as well as it does - it all starts with chassis rigidity, and this generation, they started from a great one.

The car got tons of attention from various kinds of people being the new 10th gen Civic, but one owner in particular walked around the car with real glaring eyes.

He turned to me and asked:
"Those aren't the tires they come with are they?"

"Haha, no. They come with generic all seasons. I sold the OEMs and got a cheap pair of used Evo 8 wheels to throw some real tires on it."

He introduced himself as Larenzo to me. His oddly specific question on what tires they came with told me he was definitely an experienced driver (ask anyone who's driven a lot, tires are always the first subject). He then told me how he owns (and loves) an EP3 Si, so naturally this 10th gen Civic caught his attention.

We went on a short but fun conversation of how great previous Si's were and how he was curious on the new 10th gen Si, of which I gave him my impressions after he was surprised to hear I tried it already. He was disappointed to hear I was disappointed with it, but I bumped enthusiasm back up because "the base Civics are just so good already".

I told him to hop in on run 3. While I envied his EP3 Si, I told he HAD to experience the handling and chassis of the 10th gen Civic.

You can hear his first spoken reaction as I crossed the finish line.

"This chassis felt amazing."

As the runs went on (we got 5 this day), the other new factor played into the day - Texas summer heat.

Good lord it got hot that day. The front tires were NOT happy later in the day. Between the summer heat and the lack of front camber, they were punished pretty hard on run 4 and 5.

And the heat took a toll on power too. I definitely feel the car getting heatsoaked as I felt nowhere near as much power by run 4 and 5. I'll definitely need to bring my water sprayer to cool that intercooler down between runs. Most OEM intercoolers on pretty much any car are pretty small cores and heatsoak easily, so not surprising. Not sure if I'll bother spending on upgrading to an aftermarket one.

And finally, yet again - this car is too quiet. I can't tell what RPM the car is doing. Every run was different while I was dealing with more and more heat in both the tires and car, so I just couldn't focus on what RPM I was doing while trying to manage the front tire grip without any camber (seriously Honda, at least 1 degree please? ugh).

But Dan and I still had a blast all day with the car. While the tires may be squealing from the abuse, the car just wants more. Dan remarked at how even at the limit, it still feels great. You can still play with the angle. You can still make adjustments mid corner. The car just responds well even if the tires aren't. This is a great car.

I didn't bother going to the second day. I instead spent it at a big Subaru vs Evo meet at the shop location that my Evo was waiting to be picked up. I drove there with the girlfriend in the Civic and brought both cars home. It was great to be in the Evo again - but man, the Civic Hatchback is a nice looking car. Just a great blended look of sporty practicality . Nothing like driving and looking at two cars you enjoy at the same time.

I've been too busy to put any fancy editing into the video, so I just mashed them together. Recordings from the outside window are the same run as the helmet cam before it. I didn't want to put off posting this video any longer, otherwise I start forgetting details of how the day went.

Enjoy!

 

[BarracksSi]

Which tires are you using now?

And what would you think about just leaving it in "S" without shifting manually? I agree about how hard it is to hear the engine, and I'm just talking about street driving without wearing a helmet.

 

[exyia]

Which tires are you using now?

And what would you think about just leaving it in "S" without shifting manually? I agree about how hard it is to hear the engine, and I'm just talking about street driving without wearing a helmet.

Same Continental DW's as last time

I've tried both leaving it in S and shifting manually. I think run #3 and maybe #4 (again, memory fading as the days go by), and auto for the rest. I'm just not sure what's making the throttle response so laggy coming out of corners sometimes, because I just can't hear what the god damn drivetrain is doing. I can't hear if it's just ECU throttle response, CVT response, stuck low in the rpm range/out of boost, etc.

I still had a blast though. If all the car needs is an exhaust an some camber plates, then hell yeah, that's a great little car!

 

[exyia]

Results in raw time:

The other Civic with the 54.334 is Dan, my co-driver, so the same car.

 

[BarracksSi]

I've tried both leaving it in S and shifting manually. I think run #3 and maybe #4 (again, memory fading as the days go by), and auto for the rest. I'm just not sure what's making the throttle response so laggy coming out of corners sometimes, because I just can't hear what the god damn drivetrain is doing. I can't hear if it's just ECU throttle response, CVT response, stuck low in the rpm range/out of boost, etc.

If there was a camera that could do HDR so you can see the boost meter while watching the course, maybe it'd help figure out what's going on.

I'd like to try a manual LX/Sport/Si, too, and see what the turbo lag is really like without the CVT clouding my judgment.

What about brakes -- still on stock pads? I'm a little unsure about what's available for good performance pads.

 

[exyia]

If there was a camera that could do HDR so you can see the boost meter while watching the course, maybe it'd help figure out what's going on.

I'd like to try a manual LX/Sport/Si, too, and see what the turbo lag is really like without the CVT clouding my judgment.

What about brakes -- still on stock pads? I'm a little unsure about what's available for good performance pads.

yeah that could work....or an exhaust I'm hoping Magnaflow's system comes out soon

Stock pads are working fine really. I was disappointed to find barely any aftermarket options out there, but I haven't really felt the need for more. They might not be grabby at the top of the pedal, but when really pushing the car they do the job just fine. Good job Honda

 

[exyia]

Whoa, an update

Man I would make a terrible "youtuber". This was about the only picture I bothered to take this past sunday.

Anywayyyyyyyyyyy

I honestly thought about getting rid of the car...going as far as even taking all the small things off, selling off Hondata, and car shopping around. I still think the "premium" sound system is completely garbage, and reading around on the audio/nav/tech section of this forum makes me wish I had a Sport trim so I would rip out the stock head unit without hesitation instead of dealing with the processing that this head unit is doing. The exhaust is junk (can't hear what the car is doing). The suspension aftermarket seems to have come to a halt. And I really hated the idea of modifying such an expensive Civic. I bought the Touring so I wouldn't bother spending money doing it myself on a lower trim (Sport trim's lack of features is really starting to make more sense imo).

I've just been driving around on stock tune again for a few months ready to trade-in on anything that popped up on the market that I would like.

But I couldn't find anything that I really fell in love with...and my lovely fiance told me that I never really gave the Civic a chance. Get some better wheels on it (she never liked the Evo 8 enkeis), try swapping the sub, try KTuner, add front camber, and other small annoyances.

There was an autox on the upcoming Sunday, so it was time to "give it a chance". With a green light on new wheels, I decided on Konig Ultraforms. 17x8 +45. Carried over my 245/40/17 Continental DW's. Also ordered a KTuner V1.2 from VitTuned (I always like ordering through those that support the platform, rather than just online retailers).

Wheels came out great, even though I suck at taking pictures these days.

The KTuner never made it in time though. After 2 days of no tracking info (ordered on Tuesday, 2/27), I was wondering if it even shipped. A call to VitTuned goes straight to voicemail. A support ticket through VitTuned's website went unanswered through the day. Resorted to facebook messages to VitTuned and eventually got a "I'll check later".

I finally got a response a while later that @KTuner was shipping out more tomorrow and that mine should be in that batch.

Pretty disappointing because I had called @KTuner as well and was told there was plenty of stock, no backorders on V1.2 units, and that any orders would ship same or next day without delay. That's all they could tell me since I ordered through a vendor, which I completely understand. I wish I had just ordered direct at this point though.

Then at the end of the day, I finally got tracking info. Expected arrival...monday. The day after I would have needed it.

I understand tuners get busy. I hang out with Kozmic Motorsports for my Evo X all the time and I see the kind of stuff that goes on left and right. Tuner shops are always busy and things can slip through the cracks. I just kind of wish VitTuned would have just owned up on missing my order and a simple sorry. Not asking for a refund or free next day shipping to compensate or anything. Sigh.

Anyway, mini pout over...



Pretty much all the pictures and video from the sidelines came out poorly with the weather and me being busy getting ready for the event (it's been a while, I feel rusty).

I guess the benefit of no KTuner today is that my car is conveniently setup for Street class (other than no catback) and SCCA has now classed them (HS).

This is the first time I've thrown lightweight wheels on a lightweight car. Lightweight wheels on my Evo didn't feel drastically different since it's still a heavy car and has plenty of power to forget about it. However, the new wheels on the Civic made a very noticeable difference. Low end acceleration feels smoothed out compared to before - the car always felt like it lunged off the line after boost kicked in, but now it accelerates more smoothly and linearly. Steering feels a bit sharper as well, but I'm more impressed by throttle response. This car might actually do well in HS form!

But of course, the real caveat again is the terrible stock tune and the lack of audible feedback (engine or exhaust note) to tell what the car is even doing.

The stock tune on this car is absolute garbage for competitive autox - the throttle response is just junk. It just feels like Honda is so afraid of letting boost come on quickly as if they're completely scared of going all-in on these new turbocharged platforms. It's infuriating. Every corner exit practically demands a full throttle slam of the right foot at the apex just to have some kind of boost response by the time you need it. I got some good practice in with the paddle shifters, and it helped a ton on reducing any lag from the CVT changing ratios on throttle-off turning, but the throttle response on corner exit is still a total buzzkill.

And the car is just too damn quiet. This wouldn't be that annoying if it wasn't for the fact that these cars are so restricted by turbo size and a cat-back hardly makes any more power. I'm stuck wanting a $500+ catback purchase for nothing other than sound. Ugh.

But other than those two gripes, man the car did even better. I didn't expect lightweight wheels to make that big of a difference, but I guess in this class of car (lower power, lighter chassis weight) it really was a big deal.
With the cold weather, it was nice not having to feel as bad effects from heat soak on the intercooler, which helped a lot. Power loss each run was not as noticeable in the past. Tires also didn't have as much overheating problems this day either. Overall, just a smooth operating day of autox.

My best run I managed a 53.915, but clipped a cone near the finish with my eagerness (obvious from the window view)...pushing my best official time to a 54.421. Disappointing, but in my mind I could have avoided the cone hit on run3 easily and 53.915 was a realistic capable time out of an HS configured Civic Hatch. I'm genuinely impressed. This chassis is fantastic. It's fantastic even in stock form. It would make an excellent HS contender...............if I could deal with the stock tune/throttle response. I'm sure others will deal with it, but my patience is done. The car needs at least a basemap with better throttle response mapping.

What surprised me the most was I was actually enjoying the car again. My fiance wanted to take it to deal with rush hour traffic (adaptive cruise is still amazing) the following Monday and I actually missed it.

KTuner finally came in on monday and my first impressions.........I MUCH prefer the throttle response on the KTuner Stage2 map vs Hondata's +6 psi. The car finally feels like it's running a tiny turbo (as in, it should spool quickly) and has an eagerness to respond to the gas pedal as much as it has an eagerness to take corners. Would have killed to have this at autox the day before...but oh well.

 

[KTuner]

Sorry that the unit didn't make it in time. I think that definitely would have pushed your times up even further!

 

[exyia]

Sorry that the unit didn't make it in time. I think that definitely would have pushed your times up even further!

Thanks! Your product/maps have injected fun in the car again though! Think I might build it to compete in STH now!

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