exyia
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2017
- Threads
- 7
- Messages
- 295
- Reaction score
- 333
- Location
- Houston
- Vehicle(s)
- 2017 SportTouring Hatch, 2010 EvoX SE
- Thread starter
- #16
Late update because I haven't done much to it - but took the chance to head out to an autox practice day in the next town over.
This is at Texas A&M SCCA's location, which is where the southern SCCA National Tour is held. I've attended in the past in the Evo, one of the best locations out there - tons of grip on this surface.
For context:
- Not looking to brag, but I am a very experienced autox driver. Competed heavily in 2012 and 2013 among many national championship drivers in my region, as well as getting my feet wet in nationals at this very location.
- Car is running Continental DW's, so no "would be better without the OEM tires" here
- Location and course are national level in terms of layout (not absurdly tight corners) and surface grip. Old photo from when I took my Evo to this location for the SCCA Sunbelt National Tour
I spent too much time enjoying laziness and relaxation this memorial day weekend to upload a quick video, but I figure I should post some impressions now that everyone is looking at the new Si's coming - because I'm also warming up to the idea of one ever since the price was announced way lower than expected.
My immediate first impressions were...I'm not used to driving something so slow. Man I have been spoiled.
But after a few laps, this chassis genuinely impressed me. After the tires warmed up and I got a feel for the car, I was surprised at how nimble it was.
I will go as far as to say that it felt very close to a stock Evo X.
Part of that is because the Evo X comes with very soft spring rates for it's weight (because rallycar), but I have never felt such rigidity and nimbleness with composure in a chassis since the Evo X.
I only used the "normal" VSA off setting. I never bothered to google up the complicated process to fully defeat it - and I'm happy to report that it never interfered. Put good tires on this chassis and it just dances.
There was also an Audi S3 there with a few mods done to it that I rode along with. I've always had my eye on Audi's, but they have yet to build a car that I love enough to buy or that I can afford (R8 please). I have to say, this humble Civic Sport Touring handled better than the S3.
A few big things I've learned through the experience:
1. The CVT still wants to coast in too high a "gear" in -S- mode
While the CVT is fantastic for accelerating, it still wants to try and strike an eco-friendly coast mode when moving off throttle. This really hampered the response out of tight corners (this course having a really tight left-hand turn that highlighted this).
2. The exhaust is too quiet
I could have overcome #1 by manually shifting myself, but I gave up after 2 tries - the car is just too quiet to shift by listening to RPMs. It is such a shame considering how nicely they styled the center exhaust on the Sport Hatchbacks. I was more annoyed by this than by #1.
3. The powerband is narrow
This powerband is pretty narrow, especially the more you run this car. The power output is mostly fine, but it just comes on 1/2 second later than I would like - and 1/2 a second is a lot when approaching/exiting a corner. The intercooler is most likely heatsoaking after a few runs, as the powerband starts to feel slightly more narrow over time (though part of that is enjoying the chassis so much I just want more from the car). An intercooler upgrade is probably worth doing to keep the power up throughout the day
4. An LSD is useless on a narrow powerband
This is probably my biggest take-away from the day. I never felt the need for an LSD. When power did kick in coming out of turns, it was never enough to upset or understeer the car (tires make a huge difference people). The only things I wanted were for the car to be louder so that I could manually shift and stay in the powerband. I felt like the powerband - once in it - was enough and the suspension was fantastic for stock and barely any negative camber.
Ultimately, I was shocked with how well it did. I thought I would spend the day missing my Evo, but I spent the day surprised at what Honda has made with the 10th generation Civic.
The chassis and suspension setup is very nimble and agile. Even the stock spring rates weren't boat-like soft and VERY impressive for a stock car. It was very easy to drive this car at the limit and both still feel in control and manage to still pull some great performance. Throw some light suspension mods (especially some negative camber up front), a louder exhaust, maybe an intercooler to keep charge temperatures down, and this car is seriously capable.
But now I'm curious about the Si. The core chassis is so rigid and nimble to turn, it makes for a great base platform. Widen the powerband, an LSD to claw more aggressively out of corners, and just the right amount of increase in spring/shock stiffness - what a combo...IF the Si has noticeably wider powerband. Like I detailed in #3 and #4 points above, if the Si noticeably widens the powerband of the regular 1.5T with headroom to add more, it's a great platform for some mods.
It was nice having HondaSensing for the long, tired drive home afterwards though...another point I will have to see if I'm willing to give up on a test drive with the Si.
If you're not an experienced driver, the regular Civic is more than enough. I would not sweat over "is the Si worth it?" question, especially if you're already in a 10th gen Civic now. Throw on some quality tires and some light suspension mods, and you have more than enough car for most driving. Don't let the LSD hype fool you - you do not need it on what the non Si 1.5T can output. I suspect a lot of the hype behind the LSD is partially from the actually stiffer suspension rather than the LSD itself. Handling starts with Tires and Suspension first - both of which are easily upgraded on a regular Civic (can't wait to see KW's offerings for the platform). Only experienced drivers whom have upped the power output and widened the powerband will be glad they got an LSD. With how surprised I am with this chassis, I just might want to do that. But the other half of me would also be happy with some minor upgrades and keeping Honda Sensing - making for a very well rounded, comfy daily driver.
This is at Texas A&M SCCA's location, which is where the southern SCCA National Tour is held. I've attended in the past in the Evo, one of the best locations out there - tons of grip on this surface.
For context:
- Not looking to brag, but I am a very experienced autox driver. Competed heavily in 2012 and 2013 among many national championship drivers in my region, as well as getting my feet wet in nationals at this very location.
- Car is running Continental DW's, so no "would be better without the OEM tires" here
- Location and course are national level in terms of layout (not absurdly tight corners) and surface grip. Old photo from when I took my Evo to this location for the SCCA Sunbelt National Tour
I spent too much time enjoying laziness and relaxation this memorial day weekend to upload a quick video, but I figure I should post some impressions now that everyone is looking at the new Si's coming - because I'm also warming up to the idea of one ever since the price was announced way lower than expected.
My immediate first impressions were...I'm not used to driving something so slow. Man I have been spoiled.
But after a few laps, this chassis genuinely impressed me. After the tires warmed up and I got a feel for the car, I was surprised at how nimble it was.
I will go as far as to say that it felt very close to a stock Evo X.
Part of that is because the Evo X comes with very soft spring rates for it's weight (because rallycar), but I have never felt such rigidity and nimbleness with composure in a chassis since the Evo X.
I only used the "normal" VSA off setting. I never bothered to google up the complicated process to fully defeat it - and I'm happy to report that it never interfered. Put good tires on this chassis and it just dances.
There was also an Audi S3 there with a few mods done to it that I rode along with. I've always had my eye on Audi's, but they have yet to build a car that I love enough to buy or that I can afford (R8 please). I have to say, this humble Civic Sport Touring handled better than the S3.
A few big things I've learned through the experience:
1. The CVT still wants to coast in too high a "gear" in -S- mode
While the CVT is fantastic for accelerating, it still wants to try and strike an eco-friendly coast mode when moving off throttle. This really hampered the response out of tight corners (this course having a really tight left-hand turn that highlighted this).
2. The exhaust is too quiet
I could have overcome #1 by manually shifting myself, but I gave up after 2 tries - the car is just too quiet to shift by listening to RPMs. It is such a shame considering how nicely they styled the center exhaust on the Sport Hatchbacks. I was more annoyed by this than by #1.
3. The powerband is narrow
This powerband is pretty narrow, especially the more you run this car. The power output is mostly fine, but it just comes on 1/2 second later than I would like - and 1/2 a second is a lot when approaching/exiting a corner. The intercooler is most likely heatsoaking after a few runs, as the powerband starts to feel slightly more narrow over time (though part of that is enjoying the chassis so much I just want more from the car). An intercooler upgrade is probably worth doing to keep the power up throughout the day
4. An LSD is useless on a narrow powerband
This is probably my biggest take-away from the day. I never felt the need for an LSD. When power did kick in coming out of turns, it was never enough to upset or understeer the car (tires make a huge difference people). The only things I wanted were for the car to be louder so that I could manually shift and stay in the powerband. I felt like the powerband - once in it - was enough and the suspension was fantastic for stock and barely any negative camber.
Ultimately, I was shocked with how well it did. I thought I would spend the day missing my Evo, but I spent the day surprised at what Honda has made with the 10th generation Civic.
The chassis and suspension setup is very nimble and agile. Even the stock spring rates weren't boat-like soft and VERY impressive for a stock car. It was very easy to drive this car at the limit and both still feel in control and manage to still pull some great performance. Throw some light suspension mods (especially some negative camber up front), a louder exhaust, maybe an intercooler to keep charge temperatures down, and this car is seriously capable.
But now I'm curious about the Si. The core chassis is so rigid and nimble to turn, it makes for a great base platform. Widen the powerband, an LSD to claw more aggressively out of corners, and just the right amount of increase in spring/shock stiffness - what a combo...IF the Si has noticeably wider powerband. Like I detailed in #3 and #4 points above, if the Si noticeably widens the powerband of the regular 1.5T with headroom to add more, it's a great platform for some mods.
It was nice having HondaSensing for the long, tired drive home afterwards though...another point I will have to see if I'm willing to give up on a test drive with the Si.
If you're not an experienced driver, the regular Civic is more than enough. I would not sweat over "is the Si worth it?" question, especially if you're already in a 10th gen Civic now. Throw on some quality tires and some light suspension mods, and you have more than enough car for most driving. Don't let the LSD hype fool you - you do not need it on what the non Si 1.5T can output. I suspect a lot of the hype behind the LSD is partially from the actually stiffer suspension rather than the LSD itself. Handling starts with Tires and Suspension first - both of which are easily upgraded on a regular Civic (can't wait to see KW's offerings for the platform). Only experienced drivers whom have upped the power output and widened the powerband will be glad they got an LSD. With how surprised I am with this chassis, I just might want to do that. But the other half of me would also be happy with some minor upgrades and keeping Honda Sensing - making for a very well rounded, comfy daily driver.
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