Hands on with TSP's Stage 1 tune for the 1.5T (non-Si)

kytos

Senior Member
First Name
Marcos
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Threads
7
Messages
601
Reaction score
416
Location
Madrid - Spain
Website
www.instagram.com
Vehicle(s)
CIVIC SPORT 1.5t 2017 EUDM
Country flag
It's a bit down on power, should have at least 8whp more, but what worries me is that he have a catless downpipe and only 222hp which I think is too low. Also the knock control was at .59 maybe just flashed and didn't adapted for fuel quality and the timing is a bit retarded. AFR looks a bit rich from target but nothing extreme.
Sponsored

 

Anger

Senior Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Threads
4
Messages
380
Reaction score
227
Location
Greece
Vehicle(s)
FK7,RW2,RD1,RD5,RE5,RU1,FK1,FN2,EP3
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
It's a bit down on power, should have at least 8whp more, but what worries me is that he have a catless downpipe and only 222hp which I think is too low. Also the knock control was at .59 maybe just flashed and didn't adapted for fuel quality and the timing is a bit retarded. AFR looks a bit rich from target but nothing extreme.
I also just flashed, 21PSI DUAL. Knock control started at 0.8. Now its 0.46 - 0.49 at part throttle. WOT 2nd gear goes to 0.55-0.59 and WOT 4th and 5th goes to 0.74. Very first pull I did on 2nd, Knock control was 0.76...I did only a few pulls with 4th or 5th, I believe it will drop after some time. Max boost I saw was 20.8PSI and AFR 10.8. Shell V-power 98RON.

So since he just flashed before each run, maybe his knock control is high because of that as you say. Numbers aint bad though, the catless should give more but its a pre-tuned setup. With a full custom setup, he 'd do more probably.
 
Last edited:

charleswrivers

Senior Member
First Name
Charles
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Threads
43
Messages
3,736
Reaction score
4,468
Location
Kingsland, GA
Vehicle(s)
'14 Odyssey, '94 300zx, 2001 F-150
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
So far as the dynos...

I can't speak too much to how K.cont reacts under load on a non-Si. Mine pretty much stays settled at .49 all the time no matter what I try and do to it. However, following a reflash w/Ktuner, it starts up at .59 by default... and will take a bit of run time post-flash to allow it to drop back to minimum of .49 (assuming you car will let it drop). That's potentially a few whp left on the table through some timing advance that isn't there if you're doing a flash and running it immediately on the dyno compared to having a car that has a K.cont that'll settle to .49 on the street.

The shape of the curve looks pretty nice and smooth. Not sure how 6000+ RPM looks because it looks like you lift at that point, but it's a decent showing.

Stock: 187/200
KTuner 21: 203/250
TSP Stage 1: 219/258
vs
182/206 (Stock Si)
208/258 (23#)
237/281 (TSP Stage 1)

If those are Derek's numbers for both types off the same dyno then they're interesting. If not... they still show the stock to basemap has the same power rise roughly (and the Si 21# to 23# basemaps weren't not much different. Just the midrange torque peak really showed much of a change).

Honestly... the difference between the cars was always pretty small. I think the shape is probably such that the power carries just a bit longer. That what Vit's blog dynos showed. The TSP Stage 1 woke up power after 4000 RPM and I saw high speed acceleration in 3rd/4th noticeably improve. Before that on reflashes... it was pretty tame. I'd guess the real difference for the higher peak numbers is just from the 9 vane turbo having less back pressure on the Si. If the turbo is still the choke point... then cat vs no cat might not make much of a difference. The CR might play into a smidge more timing... but I doubt it's much.
 

Two Step Performance

Elite Sponsor
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Threads
56
Messages
781
Reaction score
1,401
Location
USA
Website
twostepperformance.com
Vehicle(s)
17 Si, 19 Accord 2.0T, 23 Type R
Country flag
Here are the results:
Also logs from the pulls on ktuner and tsp, didnt recorded the standard one :(

https://files.fm/u/4a27ph2n

Civic 1.5 hatch sport 2018
AF Dynamic CAI
PRL catless downpipe
Thanks for the logs. You will notice that both logs show a fuel status of '4' and that the AFR is rich and far from the commanded AFR. This is because the ECU is still learning the fuel and not entering closed loop operation, indicating the car had not been driven very long (if at all) after the flash took place. This is normal after a re-flash. Unfortunately this means that the data was skewed on each of these pulls. I am not sure if the factory calibration test was impacted or not, due to lack of a datalog. Even with the skewed data, we can see an approximate 25whp gain between the factory and TSP1 tune. I do not see anything wrong here that would warrant paying for more testing. If you end up testing again, make sure you are in closed loop fuel operation (fuel status 2) during your testing.

If those are Derek's numbers for both types off the same dyno then they're interesting.
FYI, the Si and non-Si TSP Stage 1 tests were done on two different dynos.
 


OP
OP
gtman

gtman

Senior Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Threads
328
Messages
16,659
Reaction score
24,351
Location
USA
Website
www.civicx.com
Vehicle(s)
2017 Cosmic Blue EX-L Sedan
Vehicle Showcase
2
Thanks for posting those numbers Gixxer.

The problem I see looking at the time stamps on the dyno results is that they were done quickly in succession. As was mentioned, when you first flash, K. Control starts at .59 and gradually drops down and normalizes in time with good quality gas to .49 or so. Plus we know that on the non-Si, K. Control shoots up quite a bit above 5500 and stays there until you take it easy on throttle.

I could be wrong, but I think those factors and the timing retard that occurs has to produce lower output.

One interesting thing looking at the torque curve backs up my butt dyno. The Ktuner 21 really does drop off much more than the TSP at high rpm. And that torque curve on the standard tune is super linear.
 
Last edited:

kytos

Senior Member
First Name
Marcos
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Threads
7
Messages
601
Reaction score
416
Location
Madrid - Spain
Website
www.instagram.com
Vehicle(s)
CIVIC SPORT 1.5t 2017 EUDM
Country flag
You will notice that both logs show a fuel status of '4' and that the AFR is rich and far from the commanded AFR
Sadly this is the behavior of European ECUs (and some others) hence the importance of a good MAF tuning at high loads.
 
OP
OP
gtman

gtman

Senior Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Threads
328
Messages
16,659
Reaction score
24,351
Location
USA
Website
www.civicx.com
Vehicle(s)
2017 Cosmic Blue EX-L Sedan
Vehicle Showcase
2
Sadly this is the behavior of European ECUs (and some others) hence the importance of a good MAF tuning at high loads.
Does this cause the Euro motors to tend to output less power?
 

kytos

Senior Member
First Name
Marcos
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Threads
7
Messages
601
Reaction score
416
Location
Madrid - Spain
Website
www.instagram.com
Vehicle(s)
CIVIC SPORT 1.5t 2017 EUDM
Country flag
Does this cause the Euro motors to tend to output less power?
Yes, the ktuner basemaps were touching the 9's sometimes and when ktuner introduced the corrected MAF curve option the AFR's were way better. I haven't dyno but the engine felt better and knock control stayed lower. As far as I know the MAF curve on the TSP calibration is tuned and Derek has a curve for cars that go richer but I'm not sure, TSP Stage1 AFR are better than ktuner basemaps without the MAF correction.
 

Two Step Performance

Elite Sponsor
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Threads
56
Messages
781
Reaction score
1,401
Location
USA
Website
twostepperformance.com
Vehicle(s)
17 Si, 19 Accord 2.0T, 23 Type R
Country flag
Sadly this is the behavior of European ECUs (and some others) hence the importance of a good MAF tuning at high loads.
Thank you for the reminder on this. Derek mentioned this to us some time ago and I had forgotten about it. Another one of Honda's fun little things we have to deal with. :rolleyes:
 


Andre80

Senior Member
First Name
white civic
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Threads
7
Messages
338
Reaction score
88
Location
Europe
Vehicle(s)
Civic X 1.5 sport +
Country flag
I made several launches, never going down from the dyno, and after 2 flashes I got at least 4 dyno between 215 and 220 hp starting from 190 cv stock
 
OP
OP
gtman

gtman

Senior Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Threads
328
Messages
16,659
Reaction score
24,351
Location
USA
Website
www.civicx.com
Vehicle(s)
2017 Cosmic Blue EX-L Sedan
Vehicle Showcase
2
Andre could you post your full dyno sheets for us to see?
 
Last edited:

Andre80

Senior Member
First Name
white civic
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Threads
7
Messages
338
Reaction score
88
Location
Europe
Vehicle(s)
Civic X 1.5 sport +
Country flag
Thank you for the reminder on this. Derek mentioned this to us some time ago and I had forgotten about it. Another one of Honda's fun little things we have to deal with. :rolleyes:
It would be nice because I have often seen Afr come down to 9, by January or earlier if I can send you some logs
 

Andre80

Senior Member
First Name
white civic
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Threads
7
Messages
338
Reaction score
88
Location
Europe
Vehicle(s)
Civic X 1.5 sport +
Country flag
Andre could you post the full dyno sheets for us to see?
there are 2 a few pages behind stage 1 stage 2, tsp I don't have, if all goes well I'll do it by January

that 215 came from at least 4 throws and 2 flash
 
Last edited:

kytos

Senior Member
First Name
Marcos
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Threads
7
Messages
601
Reaction score
416
Location
Madrid - Spain
Website
www.instagram.com
Vehicle(s)
CIVIC SPORT 1.5t 2017 EUDM
Country flag
Thank you for the reminder on this. Derek mentioned this to us some time ago and I had forgotten about it. Another one of Honda's fun little things we have to deal with. :rolleyes:
Does that means that we can have an updated tune?

Don't get me wrong, the tune already feels amazing but if it can be further optimiced to work better with these ecus...
Sponsored

 
Last edited:


 


Top