FACE LIFT TYPE R SPOTTED? Check out the pic. What do you think?

slab42

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My guess is they will have 3 trims:
Type R touring
Type R sport
Type R Nurburgring Edition (limited production, phoenix yellow)

100% pure speculation, nothing to back it up besides my gut feelings lol
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aaaglen

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I don't buy it. Most of the people here are talking about aesthetics. That's not what this car is all about. This car was designed and engineered to be a track car and more specifically to beat the Nurburgring lap time set by it's sales competition. There was a lot of engineering put into the aerodynamics and specifically the wing. This is one of the few cars in the world that actually produces down force. Most cars reduce lift, but don't produce down force. The wing produces 66 lbs of actual down force at 124 mph.

The following article explains the engineering that went into it, pre and post Nurburgring runs.

2017 Honda Civic Type R: What's Up With the Wing?
https://www.cars.com/articles/2017-honda-civic-type-r-whats-up-with-the-wing-1420697626310/

There are other sightings of the 2020 model on the Nurburgring and they all still have the wing. You could make several arguments for going to a 19" wheel (i.e., faster acceleration, lower center of gravity for better handling, but you would give up ground clearance and I'm not sure they would do this for a daily driver.

This is more likely just some random one off modded car from who knows where. It's not at a track or facility, almost looks like some random neighborhood. Honda would most likely use enclosed trailers for transporting their autos or at least a more substantial trailer than a one auto transport. They have all kinds of test equipment to haul to the track and likely take multiple vehicles.
 

tinyman392

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I don't buy it. Most of the people here are talking about aesthetics. That's not what this car is all about. This car was designed and engineered to be a track car and more specifically to beat the Nurburgring lap time set by it's sales competition. There was a lot of engineering put into the aerodynamics and specifically the wing. This is one of the few cars in the world that actually produces down force. Most cars reduce lift, but don't produce down force. The wing produces 66 lbs of actual down force at 124 mph.

The following article explains the engineering that went into it, pre and post Nurburgring runs.

2017 Honda Civic Type R: What's Up With the Wing?
https://www.cars.com/articles/2017-honda-civic-type-r-whats-up-with-the-wing-1420697626310/

There are other sightings of the 2020 model on the Nurburgring and they all still have the wing. You could make several arguments for going to a 19" wheel (i.e., faster acceleration, lower center of gravity for better handling, but you would give up ground clearance and I'm not sure they would do this for a daily driver.

This is more likely just some random one off modded car from who knows where. It's not at a track or facility, almost looks like some random neighborhood. Honda would most likely use enclosed trailers for transporting their autos or at least a more substantial trailer than a one auto transport. They have all kinds of test equipment to haul to the track and likely take multiple vehicles.
You don’t get a lower car for going to 19”. You just get a thicker tire wall. It’s possible you get a small weight reduction in rotational mass, but Honda’s OE rims tend to be heavy to begin with.
 

aaaglen

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You don’t get a lower car for going to 19”. You just get a thicker tire wall. It’s possible you get a small weight reduction in rotational mass, but Honda’s OE rims tend to be heavy to begin with.
I appreciate your input, but depending on certain assumptions, which were not the main point of the comment, either or both of us would actually be correct.
I was making the assumption that they used the same Aspect Ratio (30).
You are assuming they are using specifically a (35) aspect ratio, and then the ride height does not change like you said.
If they used a (40) aspect ratio, then the ride height would actually be higher.
It would probably make more sense to go with the (35) Aspect Ratio so everything, like you said, will stay the same.

245.30.20 245.30.19 245.35.19 245.40.19

Diameter 25.79 24.79 25.75 26.71

Section Width 9.65 9.65 9.65 9.65

Sidewall 2.89 2.89 3.38 3.86

http://www.angelfire.com/pa5/carclub/tiresize.html calculator used for the above computations.

I also agree with your rotational mass comment.
 

tinyman392

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I appreciate your input, but depending on certain assumptions, which were not the main point of the comment, either or both of us would actually be correct.
I was making the assumption that they used the same Aspect Ratio (30).
You are assuming they are using specifically a (35) aspect ratio, and then the ride height does not change like you said.
If they used a (40) aspect ratio, then the ride height would actually be higher.
It would probably make more sense to go with the (35) Aspect Ratio so everything, like you said, will stay the same.

245.30.20 245.30.19 245.35.19 245.40.19

Diameter 25.79 24.79 25.75 26.71

Section Width 9.65 9.65 9.65 9.65

Sidewall 2.89 2.89 3.38 3.86

http://www.angelfire.com/pa5/carclub/tiresize.html calculator used for the above computations.

I also agree with your rotational mass comment.
Why would you assume one would use the same aspect ratio? Most wheel shops you go to recommend a new tire size for the rim you're mounting because the rim width and diameter change and they want to stay as close to stock as possible. It also makes it much better for fitment overall since it becomes one less variable to deal with. Unless you're going with a wider tire (while downsizing diameter) I don't know of any tire shop that would recommend you keep the same aspect ratio when downsizing your rim size.
 


smc_stefan

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This is more likely just some random one off modded car from who knows where. It's not at a track or facility, almost looks like some random neighborhood. Honda would most likely use enclosed trailers for transporting their autos or at least a more substantial trailer than a one auto transport. They have all kinds of test equipment to haul to the track and likely take multiple vehicles.
If you look closely at the picture from page 1 you will notice the CTR on the truck already has the new facelift rear bumper. Hard to imagine someone modded his CTR with parts which are not available yet, plus the protective stickers on the logos and the 19" Honda wheels.

This doesn't look like a homemade mod to me...
 

smc_stefan

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There are strong rumors about three different versions, like mentioned above, here in Europe. Would be nice to see them soon, guess we will know more around spring 2020.

Currently the CTR is offered in three different trims here, which make no sense, as they are just differently fitted with electronics, so almost everybody takes the fully loaded GT trim.
 

RedGiant217

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Most cars reduce lift, but don't produce down force. The wing produces 66 lbs of actual down force at 124 mph.
Please explain what you think is the difference between reducing lift and producing down force...lol
The car produces lift. Down force from the wing reduces that lift. Any wing/spoiler that reduces lift us producing down force.
 


smc_stefan

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Please explain what you think is the difference between reducing lift and producing down force...lol
The car produces lift. Down force from the wing reduces that lift. Any wing/spoiler that reduces lift us producing down force.
Normally, and I hope Honda is not playing marketing tricks, downforce is positive pressure on the car at a certain speed. If you speak of downforce you don't mean reduced lift.

Let's say a car has a lift of 50 lbs at 100 mph at the rear axle, you can add a Spoiler to reduce the lift to, let's say 20 lbs at 100 mph to make the car more stable at higher speeds. That would be reduced lift.

If speaking of downforce you have no lift at all, but you will need either a relatively steep spoiler which most likely will not be street legal (as the BMW M4 CSL Spoiler in its steep position) or a wing like Honda uses.
So the number of x lbs downforce at y mph should not display the number of lbs the lift is reduced but the actual number of positive pressure which is generated.

Like I said in the beginning, I sincerely hope Honda is not playing marketing tricks, stating the CTR wing produces those 66 lbs at 125 mph is real downforce and not the reduction of the lift.
 

RedGiant217

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Like I said in the beginning, I sincerely hope Honda is not playing marketing tricks, stating the CTR wing produces those 66 lbs at 125 mph is real downforce and not the reduction of the lift.
I wasn't aware of that distinction but it does make sense.
I tend to think the 66lbs is just the force produced by the wing and not 66lbs more than whatever lift there is at 125mph. The difference can't be all that much anyway.
 

smc_stefan

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I wasn't aware of that distinction but it does make sense.
I tend to think the 66lbs is just the force produced by the wing and not 66lbs more than whatever lift there is at 125mph. The difference can't be all that much anyway.
Yeah, Hondas definition is a little bit tricky, they always say that the wing produces 66lbs at 125mph downforce, which should mean they have 66lbs real downforce on the rear axle but could also mean thats just the number the wing produces and not the total downforce at the rear axle, maybe they have 100lbs lift at 125 mph an the wing reduces it to 34 lbs lift, who knows?

The only thing we know is that the aerodynamics of the CTR are quite good and balanced, wich matters more to me than bare numbers.

Regarding the tested and pictured "small wing option" I think that the aerodynamics are good enough to live without the big wing, as the CTR has a pretty flat underbod which helps reducing lift plus some other tweaks. If the small wing will be an option or part of a trim package for 2020, it could also be possible that Honda limits the top Speed at around 160 mph if they think the car wouldn't be stable enough at high Speeds without the big wing.
 

TypeSiR

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"For those who question its form, there’s solace knowing it is, in fact, functional. At 200 kph (124 mph), the 306-horsepower, turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder Civic Type R and its wing are producing 30 kg (66 pounds) of downforce, which plants the rear end, and increases cornering and straight-line stability, according to Rob Keough, senior product planner for the Type R."

Source: https://www.cars.com/articles/2017-honda-civic-type-r-whats-up-with-the-wing-1420697626310/

Numbers mentioned by Honda are what we have to go by. Everything else is just conjecture. The amount of lift is unknown so guessing it is just distracting. At the end, the wing is making 66 pounds of downforce at 124 mph regardless of the amount of lift. Without the wing, it'd have 66 pounds less downforce (at 124 mph) regardless of the amount of lift.
 

tinyman392

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Please explain what you think is the difference between reducing lift and producing down force...lol
The car produces lift. Down force from the wing reduces that lift. Any wing/spoiler that reduces lift us producing down force.
A spoiler doesn't produce downforce, it specifically is designed to reduce lift by spoiling the air that flows over the rear of the vehicle, it'll no longer be effective if the resulting lift becomes 0 (you can't reduce lift if there isn't any left). A wing, on the other hand, is shaped in such a way to push air upward (which in turn pushes the rear of the car downward) producing a downward force (downforce or negative lift). This, in theory, allows you to put more "weight" on the rear of the vehicle that is higher than the lift provided by said vehicle having better net effect than a spoiler. However, the wing comes with a higher cost of drag compared to the spoiler.

However, if the wing does not produce enough downforce to overcome the lift of the vehicle, then the effect on the vehicle would be no different than a spoiler that reduces the lift an equal amount (to the actual downforce created) if I'm not mistaken (the only cost would be drag created by the wing). Keep in mind that the faster you get a car moving, the more downforce is created and it's quadratically related; that is, if you double the speed, you quadruple the downforce (if you halve the speed, you quarter the downforce). Also keep in mind that braking also will affect the downforce of a wing as well (normally it should increase it).
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