Is Honda MTF that bad?

[mikey003]

Mercedes provides lists of approved fluids for their vehicles.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/beam.en.html

Does Honda have similar list?

no they don't, because the only approved MTF is the honda fluid,

the following is copied and pasted from the HONDA SHOP/DEALER SERVICE MANUAL



Always use Honda Manual Transmission Fluid (MTF)

NOTE: Using the wrong type of fluid will damage the transmission.

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[amirza786]

Mercedes provides lists of approved fluids for their vehicles.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/beam.en.html

Does Honda have similar list?

They don't have a specific list of products, but for most fluids like motor oil they say it should be SAE API SN approved etc. I can't speak for GM Synchromesh, (@Honda_RacerX can speak for it) but if you go to Amsoils website, they say it will not void your warranty and also provide a warranty against any defects in their product and say they will warranty any damage should it be caused by their product. Hey @mikey003 good enough for me.

BTW you are correct. If you use the wrong type of MT fluid such as Gear oil etc you could damage your transmission. That's why Amsoil uses a vehicle selector when buying their products

 

[amirza786]

please don't group the rest of us canadians with mikey. we all have a red headed stepchild we like to ignore

@mikey003 has good intentions. Some people go extremely the other way, saying everything OEM is bad and putting 20W50 in their cars because they believe 0W20 will destroy their engines etc. following advice on forums from so called experts who never read a technical document in their lives. So I get where he is coming from

 

[Joe_Bauers]

Is there a petroleum/chemical engineer on the forum that could chime in?

 

[mis3]

I had a bad experience with synthetic engine oil long time ago with my 1999 Honda Prelude.
The car came with regular oil and I used regular oil for 100K KM. I tried synthetic oil (not sure if it was full synthetic or synthetic blend) and right away I started to loose oil. The dealership could not find the root cause and I continued to loose oil for 2-3 months. The problem was finally resolved after I switched back to regular oil.

 

[REBELXSi]

Honda MTF has to be changed at 25K

Again? Proof?

 

[mvela]

I will also be going with the amsoil synchromesh fluid soon. I actually bought the Honda mtf and changed my fluid after 15000 miles and noticed no difference. It felt the same notchiness and rough getting into even gears like usual. I feel like you have to be extra careful all the time and I’m hoping the amsoil will change that for me. I feel that whatever helps get your gears to mate up smoother should be healthier for the transmission. Maybe I’m wrong on that but that’s my way of thinking. I mean that’s the point of oil right, to reduce friction!? So I’m giving amsoil a try

 

[REBELXSi]

I will also be going with the amsoil synchromesh fluid soon. I actually bought the Honda mtf and changed my fluid after 15000 miles and noticed no difference. It felt the same notchiness and rough getting into even gears like usual. I feel like you have to be extra careful all the time and I’m hoping the amsoil will change that for me. I feel that whatever helps get your gears to mate up smoother should be healthier for the transmission. Maybe I’m wrong on that but that’s my way of thinking. I mean that’s the point of oil right, to reduce friction!? So I’m giving amsoil a try

Be careful not to fall for the "I paid more for this so it has to be good" placebo trap. I swear it happens all the time. Hopefully it actually works out better for you.

 

[Deezy]

I will also be going with the amsoil synchromesh fluid soon. I actually bought the Honda mtf and changed my fluid after 15000 miles and noticed no difference. It felt the same notchiness and rough getting into even gears like usual. I feel like you have to be extra careful all the time and I’m hoping the amsoil will change that for me. I feel that whatever helps get your gears to mate up smoother should be healthier for the transmission. Maybe I’m wrong on that but that’s my way of thinking. I mean that’s the point of oil right, to reduce friction!? So I’m giving amsoil a try

If you haven't already done so, I recommend installing the Acuity short throw adapter, centering spring and base bushings, as well as a weighted shift knob. I went with the new 27WON knob.
These changes made a world of difference!
90% of the notchiness is gone, and I'm planning on changing to the Amsoil to hopefully smooth out the rest.

 

[mvela]

If you haven't already done so, I recommend installing the Acuity short throw adapter, centering spring and base bushings, as well as a weighted shift knob. I went with the new 27WON knob.
These changes made a world of difference!
90% of the notchiness is gone, and I'm planning on changing to the Amsoil to hopefully smooth out the rest.

Yes I already have the stage 2 acuity shift kit installed and it changed the feel and made the shifts shorter and tighter. But still isn’t smooth. It’s kinda hard to deny all these people who have had good luck with the amsoil. I mean that’s what this forum is about. We are seeking advice. And it seems like amsoil will help so I’m gonna give it a shot

 

[mvela]

Be careful not to fall for the "I paid more for this so it has to be good" placebo trap. I swear it happens all the time. Hopefully it actually works out better for you.

I’m quick to call out a placebo. If I feel no difference I will let everyone know. But if it helps in any way I think the little extra cost would be worth it

 

[Pepper's Dad]

I am wondering if Honda MTF is that bad.

I found shifting of my SI is good. However, I do not know better since my last manual car was a 1999 Honda Prelude (sold in 2004). So, I did not drive a manual for 14 years.

Since I do believe that full-synthetic will preform better than semi-synthetic, I will go ahead to replace the MTF with Amsoil. At least I did not read any adverse effects when members here change out the MTF with Amsoil.

Are there any differences in transmission parts in Canadian SI vs other countries?

I replaced mine with Amsoil and I cannot detect any difference. I guess at least I got new fluid in it.

 

[amirza786]

Again? Proof?

I believe I provided it in the last post you asked me that question

 

[charleswrivers]

My RSX Type S had bad shifting... tried several different MTFs... Amsoil was the best and was what I stuck with.

'15 Civic Si... shifting performance went to crap long before the change interval.

'18 Civic Si... same thing.

The manuals back in the day of the RSX... which took 5w-30 oil said you could use that motor oil in lieu of Honda MTF temporarily if you couldn't get any. It had instructions on how to change it in the manual too.

The '15 and '18 both took 0w-20 oil... and their manuals stated to use those oils as the temp replacement... though Honda MTF didn't change. The instructions on how to change the MTF went away... and got the 'just take it back to us and we'll do it for you' line... more or less.

Manuals have been dumbed down to lock the end user down. As with the oil viscosity chart only showing 1 motor oil viscosity for the range vice all other appropriate oil viscosities that could be used .. And the push to prevent owners for doing their own maintenance (my Odyssey ditched the yellow, very visible ATF fill plug for a tiny handled black one to damn near hide the thing) to drum up service department usage. I take a lot of the statements in the manual as fear mongering to sell more Honda fluids.

Our Civics are nothing special maintenance-wise. Fluids out... fluids in. Filters out... filters in. Plugs around 100k... I assume coolant around the same time (the J35s do it when you do their timing belt). Pick whatever you want and use it. The Amsoil Syncromesh is about the same viscosity as the Honda MTF... which is a stupid thin ~30w gear oil and is nothing like the most heavier gear lubes most people would be used to in MTs or differentials.

 

[REBELXSi]

I believe I provided it in the last post you asked me that question

If I recall, it was wrong then lol

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