Gen X k20c2 E85

[apakaleky]

I can understand *skepticism* of building a K20C2 engine, because there's really no aftermarket for this engine, at this point in time.

I *can't* understand the hostility though -- If you've been in the Honda game long enough, people have done everything imaginable, swapping this and that and built EGs and Del Sols with 1200 HP. There's a desire here and eventually this code will be cracked, just like all the 600HP D16s and such. It'll come.

We're in the post-modern era now, where everyone is jaded and skeptical, and nobody can ever do anything like this again.

If you can build a 600HP D16 why can't you build a 600HP K20C2?

600 hp may cost A LOT I see 300 -350 as obtainable and totally agree with you I thought people would be more helpful, i know if i had knowledge i would be

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[Axatax]

A 600HP D16 or a 1200HP B18 are extreme examples, for sure, but it shows it *can* and has been done.

The K20C2 is an infinitely better platform than any D or B-series was. It's just a question of someone cracking this nut, and then the mods will flow out like Niagra falls. The K20 is the next B18. They just need to get a little older and people a little more adventurous and the pieces will fall in place. I'm certain of this this and history is on my side.

Eventually these engines will be considered swap candidates for EJ-type bodies and then you'll see the aftermarket spool up.

 

[Axatax]

600 hp may cost A LOT I see 300 -350 as obtainable and totally agree with you I thought people would be more helpful, i know if i had knowledge i would be

The platform is so new, all anyone knows or cares to do right now is to bolt on existing parts from manufacturers (down-pipes and air intakes). This will change as the platform ages.

 

[RS27]

That G&G YouTube video was excellent. Agreed.
Also agreed on weight. While I may be taking my car a bit far in that regard, it’s currently about 2535lbs and it MOVES compared to stock. The 13.7 lb Enkei wheels and the 200+ lbs weight off the chassis means my car stock will break tires loose in first smashing gas and the 1-2 shift pretty significantly.

Im purposely leaving engine stock until I get the weight down to where I want. Then I’ll do the RV6 pipe and K tuner with a high flow muffler.

I’d be so down for a supercharger though. Haha

 

[tripodog]

I think there is power to be made in the head.
My future plan is to get a hold of another c2 head and port it, stiffer vavle springs and larger injectors. Probably Type r intake and TB.
N/a owners won’t get the luxury of having endless performance parts available for a long time

 

[ThatSlowFc2]

Yes but there is no real info that it was successful nor did he respond to any questions about intake manifold, throttle body, injectors or even ECU ... he said he used Ktuner but Ktuner does not currently support boost for this model. I'm not sure what to trust.

From what i gather now i jsut want to see about using bigger injectors.

What can be swapped?

I don't know much about injector size or cross compatibility

What is successful for you? If you wanna hear me say I blew my motor I’m sure that’s what you would wanna hear lmfao. I have videos everywhere. That’s my daily and nothin has happened to my motor, or my car. I’ve been doubted for 2 1/2 years and people still think I didn’t do it? ? here have a banana ?

 

[EkSean]

You’re biggest issue will be finding a way to let the computer know that positive intake pressure is normal. Not sure you can do it with the stock one. If you want to spend thousand to get a custom wiring harness made and motec or any stand alone management system then that’s your best bet. I’m sure there’s similarities with the c1 and c4 that may help. Maybe and accord computer and ktuner with a good tuner could produce something. Im not sure.

I personally think the k20c2 is garbage but that is my opinion. I am also all for different so I say more power to you! Be the one to pave the way and show these aren’t garbage. After all it’s still a Honda engine. Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.

 

[BigRedtheGinger]

Hey, just wondering if you happen to have any progress with your build? Lately I've been keeping an eye on Pick A Part for a 2.0 Civic so I can swipe the cams on it to send to Comp, Lunati or Isky Cams to see if they can regrind them for more lift. I figure, maybe a 10-15hp gain, possibly more with a tune. If they can custom grind a set, might be able to get some for others that want cam upgrades. See how much lift these can handle.
So far I just have a KTuner V2, magnaflow resonator, Coffin muffler, and K&N drop in filter. Would be interesting to see the head get ported too.

 

[ambitiousal]

I’m curious to see how far you’ve gotten too. The K20C2 does not get any love at all, but I’ve been thinking about pushing its buttons one day to see how much it can produce. It has potential just needs time and money and also a company to show it love with after market parts ? I saw a video on YT about a guy that turbocharged his 9th gen civic (I think) but he swapped all the internals as well. I was just worried about how the cvt would handle all that extra hp if it did happen.

When mine is not my daily driver anymore, I’ll start throwing parts at it and hopefully by then there’ll be a little love shown to it. Still doing my research every day and looking for answers and options.

Good luck man, and please keep us updated with pics and videos. Nice ride btw!

 

[Civic_rob]

I’m curious to see how far you’ve gotten too. The K20C2 does not get any love at all, but I’ve been thinking about pushing its buttons one day to see how much it can produce. It has potential just needs time and money and also a company to show it love with after market parts ? I saw a video on YT about a guy that turbocharged his 9th gen civic (I think) but he swapped all the internals as well. I was just worried about how the cvt would handle all that extra hp if it did happen.

When mine is not my daily driver anymore, I’ll start throwing parts at it and hopefully by then there’ll be a little love shown to it. Still doing my research every day and looking for answers and options.

Good luck man, and please keep us updated with pics and videos. Nice ride btw!

Here's my K20C2 powered LX-P Coupe. So far I've got KTuner, Invidia Exhaust, RV6 Downpipe, FKXRacing/Custom CAI, lots of weight reduction, staggered 245/225 tire setup (eventually downsizes to a 16 inch rim with wider tires), Zex Nitrous Kit I need to wire up, some aero bits, strut bar, Boomba Rear Motor Mount, and probably some more I'm forgetting about. The biggest issue for me isn't the motor but the transmission. The CVT's are not built for power and they have this lag that makes me hate driving it. Transmission swaps are possible but it'll be pricey even if you do all the labor yourself. Probably could make 250hp with enough spray (75shot) but that'll kill the engine life so I'm opting to go for 35-50 shot with the spray and continue the weight reduction where possible.

 

[ambitiousal]

Here's my K20C2 powered LX-P Coupe. So far I've got KTuner, Invidia Exhaust, RV6 Downpipe, FKXRacing/Custom CAI, lots of weight reduction, staggered 245/225 tire setup (eventually downsizes to a 16 inch rim with wider tires), Zex Nitrous Kit I need to wire up, some aero bits, strut bar, Boomba Rear Motor Mount, and probably some more I'm forgetting about. The biggest issue for me isn't the motor but the transmission. The CVT's are not built for power and they have this lag that makes me hate driving it. Transmission swaps are possible but it'll be pricey even if you do all the labor yourself. Probably could make 250hp with enough spray (75shot) but that'll kill the engine life so I'm opting to go for 35-50 shot with the spray and continue the weight reduction where possible.

Nice build. That looks really good. I gotta step my game up lol.

Btw, the cvt is already laggy without the nitrous kit yet just the tune and bolt ons? And have you taken it to the dyno?

 

[rwk226]

To answer some of the questions asked last year about this car:
- Most of the internals on a c2 (NA 2.0) are not shared on the c1/c3 (CTR/Accord 2.0t) and are not interchangeable.
- The stock ECU will not read positive manifold pressure / boost, meaning a supercharger or turbocharger are not technically possible. Now there are ways around it, such as an aftermarket ECU (expensive) or whatever ThatSlowFc2 did with his (definitely check out his build, as they figured somethings out for sure). As Civic_Rob brought up above and in other posts, you can definitely try Nitrous and have some success I think.
- There simply isn't as much aftermarket for this motor as there is for previous B, and current L or K series motors. Maybe in 10 years when these cars become dirt cheap and people are more willing to experiment and play with these motors, the secrets to making this motor worth it might be found.

Most aftermarket for 10th Gen Civics revolves around the L15 simply because Honda overbuilt the motor, made it easy to add power, are easy to work on, and are so common. While I do agree people have the right to do as they wish with their money, most people who are "critical" of the c2s are rightfully so. L!5 is cheaper to build, faster, and technically safer since there is more data on record for it versus the c2. It might be possible to be around 200whp with a FBO c2, but I simply don't know enough about them to say for sure. Someone with more knowledge on this motor might could chime in and correct me.

Then again, I could go buy a 2000s model single cab W/T with a V8, build the motor, and have a 400whp street truck for $5k including the truck. Wouldn't have the amenities our Civics do or get good gas mileage, but hey I'd have a fast car for cheap! In the end, it all falls to personal preference/desire. More power to anyone who wants to expand the c2 market.

 

[Civic_rob]

To answer some of the questions asked last year about this car:
- Most of the internals on a c2 (NA 2.0) are not shared on the c1/c3 (CTR/Accord 2.0t) and are not interchangeable.
- The stock ECU will not read positive manifold pressure / boost, meaning a supercharger or turbocharger are not technically possible. Now there are ways around it, such as an aftermarket ECU (expensive) or whatever ThatSlowFc2 did with his (definitely check out his build, as they figured somethings out for sure). As Civic_Rob brought up above and in other posts, you can definitely try Nitrous and have some success I think.
- There simply isn't as much aftermarket for this motor as there is for previous B, and current L or K series motors. Maybe in 10 years when these cars become dirt cheap and people are more willing to experiment and play with these motors, the secrets to making this motor worth it might be found.

Most aftermarket for 10th Gen Civics revolves around the L15 simply because Honda overbuilt the motor, made it easy to add power, are easy to work on, and are so common. While I do agree people have the right to do as they wish with their money, most people who are "critical" of the c2s are rightfully so. L!5 is cheaper to build, faster, and technically safer since there is more data on record for it versus the c2. It might be possible to be around 200whp with a FBO c2, but I simply don't know enough about them to say for sure. Someone with more knowledge on this motor might could chime in and correct me.

Then again, I could go buy a 2000s model single cab W/T with a V8, build the motor, and have a 400whp street truck for $5k including the truck. Wouldn't have the amenities our Civics do or get good gas mileage, but hey I'd have a fast car for cheap! In the end, it all falls to personal preference/desire. More power to anyone who wants to expand the c2 market.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This was my first brand new car I've purchased and as such I've grown attached. I also figured 2.0 > 1.5 for displacement and knew the 2.0s of the past were pretty robust when I went to purchase the car. I did not know that in order to slap on a turbo/supercharger you'd have to run a standalone ecu, custom order all engine internals because a lot of them aren't the same as the C1-C4s, and didn't know that aftermarket companies would overlook this engine configuration in favor of the turbos.

I spent a good amount of time looking up part numbers and seeing which were used in both the CTR and our 2.slows. Very few parts carry over and the ones that do aren't worth swapping because they will net you little gain if any. One of the main advantages the other K20C's have over this engine are oil cooling passages (and even the Type R still have heat soak and cooling issues like crazy so imagine it with our engines) as well as parts meant for turbo applications since they are from the factory boosted. The reason the exhaust manifold (headifold as most refer to it) has only a single exit rather than the traditional 4port design is for boosted applications. The intake manifolds are different because I was thinking of trying to retrofit a Type R intake manifold but then I realized it would probably negatively affect performance since this intake manifold was probably design to be efficient with the NA engine. Sure you could always run longer headers but the intake manifold is in the back (for fuel economy) and space is limited not to mention it's a pain in the ass to work on.

It's not all bad though. Our engines haven't had many recalls since 2016 when they first came out. Our fuel pumps work as intended, haven't heard of oil dilution for the 2.0s, our head gaskets seem to be better than the L15s since I hear stories about them consuming the gaskets as if they were a Subaru. Also the most important benefit we have over all other trims is that we are Port Fuel Injected where all other trims are Direct Injected. I think of it as a benefit but many will argue direct injection allows for better fuel temps and knock resistances so a DI System is more performance oriented.

 

[Civic_rob]

Nice build. That looks really good. I gotta step my game up lol.

Btw, the cvt is already laggy without the nitrous kit yet just the tune and bolt ons? And have you taken it to the dyno?

The CVT must have some strange programming and safety mechanisms in place because it's always been laggy even after all the mods I've done. It doesn't have gears and I believe Honda put in some sort of artificial shift feeling like that of traditional gearboxes so you don't feel like you're driving a CVT.

I will say that KTuner made a night and day difference by simply allowing me to change the throttle response. I opted for the Improved Throttle Response II and now I don't have to slam my foot into the ground to have it actually register my input.

So the 2.slow has i-VTEC on the exhaust cam and from the factory it engaged at a disgustingly high 6500rpm for the CVT's and 6100rpm for manuals (our cvt redline is at 6800rpm for reference so that leaves 300rpm between i-vtec and redline which is a complete joke). The CVT climbs incredibly slow to the 6800rpm redline so i-vtec will 95% of the time never even have a chance to come on unless you're on KTuner (it's set to 5300rpm and redline at 7000rpm I believe on the basemap).

The reason I'm saying this is that there exists a strange pedal mash that shoots the rpms up higher and quicker than just holding your foot down on the gas. Next time you're on a stretch shift to 'S'. The engine rpms will be held higher than 'D' and you should feel more engine braking. Now when you try to reach WOT at redline with the CVT it'll climb pretty slowly. Instead of just pressing and holding it, I and a few others found that if you press it all the way down, let off for a split second, and repeat this process about 2-3times that it reaches those higher rpms quicker thus letting the i-vtec engagement happen earlier. I think Myx on the forums has a write up about it. I believe the logic is that the CVT tries to give a smooth delivery of power where if you do the pedal dance it'll feel like 3 tiny shifts as the ECU interprets each input as a request for more power.

I haven't had a chance to install the nitrous in but the plan is to spray with i-vtec crossover that way it's higher up in the rpm range and it'll feel like the good old fashioned VTEC people used to love.

Having it tuned and dyno'd is on the list of things to do once I get this all wired and setup. Unfortunately neither a dyno nor a tune are exactly cheap so I'm taking it slow since the ZEX kit set me back ~$1,000.

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