Civic Type R After-market Wheel Guide

[Deleted member 47337]

You can't move the centerline of the wheel an inch and not induce torque steer. It is basic physics.

Now if you can't detect it, then good for you. But it is there.

Then the stock setup must have torque steer, it's just that we can't detect it.

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[Deleted member 47337]

Very interesting information on this new setup you are using. I have two questions, though. Did you have to lower this setup? I read the review at Tire rack, and while the DWS 06 Plus scored very well in it's class, are you limiting tire performance for 2/3rds of the year (assuming you live in a state that experiences winter) by going with a very high performance all season vs a very high performance summer tire like say, the P4S?

So, to answer your question in very basic form, the answer is No.

I didn't have to lower the car at all. My car has stock suspension.

Also, just to clarify again, I have not lost any performance compared to stock with this particular setup, and I drive the car really HARD. I keep getting personal messages in regards to this setup so I'll try to elaborate a bit more.

I specifically DIDN'T choose the P4S, because I drove a 2019 Type R with those tires in an 18" size, and I wasn't a fan. I could feel the performance loss immediately when I got behind the wheel. Steering input was not as sharp as stock, and the turn in felt slightly mushy. The tire was a bit too soft for me, and that made perfect sense since it was a summer tire. I can only imagine going wider in a P4S and making the tire even heavier.....that wouldn't be my cup of tea.

I called Tirerack and I spoke with one of their product managers when ordering my wheels and asked if they could recommend a much more stiffer tire and the gentleman said to get the DWS 06 Plus. I had heard of the DWS 06, but he said that the DWS 06 Plus was the DWS 06 on steriods. It was also the lightest tire sold in that size with very good ratings in dry, wet, and cold performance.

So, I got the DWS 06 Plus in 245/40/18 and man did that change the ride quality on my car. At OEM tire pressures, this tire is rock hard. The car on hard corners is extremely stable....absolutely no body roll in Sport or +R. My car rides exceptionally well, and the car feels more composed than the stock setup.

It doesn't snow where I live, so I didn't really get it for snow. I got the DWS 06 Plus because I wanted a stiff ride and I knew that I would be able to drive in really cold temps without any issues.

I also noticed something that nobody really talks about. The drive with DWS 06 Plus tires compared to P4S, you notice that the car cruises much easier in a straight line....almost as if there is less road friction holding the car from moving forward. Its a really good feeling, and you wont quite understand until you feel it for yourself. The car seems to want to move much quicker and feels very light on its feet.

It's hard to explain, but once you drive on a really lightweight setup, with a hard tire compound, it's hard to go to something softer and heavier...and that's the honest truth. A few lbs heavier per wheel is one too many lbs for me. You can get summer tires, or race compounds and get way better performance on the track, but on public roads (even driving really hard), I have not noticed any decline in any department with my setup. And again, this is STILL the lightest setup I have come across on this forum....all for $1500..not $5000. I would never pay more for a heavier setup.....doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[RepyT]

Then the stock setup must have torque steer, it's just that we can't detect it.

Not detectable with zero scrub radius meaning there is none in straight line accel. One YT vid shows going through all gears staying pretty darn straight. Put right foot down before apex and you’ll find some of stock. The more your setup imparts more positive scrub, the stronger that torque steer will be. You may not notice it much up to say 7/10 but find edge of grip (9/10+)and you will need to resist tugs proportionally.

 

[Deleted member 47337]

Not detectable with zero scrub radius meaning there is none in straight line accel. One YT vid shows going through all gears staying pretty darn straight. Put right foot down before apex and you’ll find some of stock. The more your setup imparts more positive scrub, the stronger that torque steer will be. You may not notice it much up to say 7/10 but find edge of grip (9/10+)and you will need to resist tugs proportionally.

Oh, gotcha.

I honestly can't detect any torque steer. I don't usually go full beans on turns, but definitely get above 50% throttle on most hard corners. I am sure I can somehow extract it out if I wanted to, but I honestly don't even know what torque steer feels like since it hasn't happened to me.

I want to mention something here on this thread and hopefully people read this...

I have driven a lot of Type Rs with aftermarket wheels and tires, as well as my personal Type R, with probably 5 different tires on my Motegi wheels. Every single setup felt slightly different. Some setups were soft, some were stiff, some had slack in the steering feel, some were really sharp. I can say that wheels and tires, along with their weight, make a huge difference. After going through multiple sets of tires on my Type R, I could careless about the brand of a tire at this point. I only care about performance; How the car behaves during accelerating, braking, and cornering. I can safely say that a couple lbs per wheel or a few lbs on a tire make a HUGE difference on acceleration and braking.

For example, I met a guy from North Carolina who has a 2021 Type R. His Type R has forged 5 spoke wheels (not sure of the brand), with 265 section width tires, and his Type R did not respond like mine. When he drove my car, he mentioned the same thing. The throttle response and low end torque was completely muted on his car. It didn't even feel like how it would be stock, and his car, other than wheels and tires, was bone stock. He spent $3500 on his setup and apparently was a super light wheel and tire combo.

I am assuming his car felt sluggish because of the heavy tires, and excessive road friction caused by wider tires. He may have had better handling when at the limit, but I would never want to sacrifice one thing for another. I would be pissed if I spent that much money and the car lost some performance in straight line acceleration.

When I bought my wheels and tires, I wanted to keep the handling exact same. Luckily, it got slightly better. I also wanted to have faster acceleration and better braking, so I kept the overall stock tire diameter and width and just got really light 18" wheels and tires. I tried to find the lightest wheels possible, and the lightest tires possible.

I think that DWS 06 Plus tires with 18s in 8.5" are golden. You lose so much overall wheel weight, that the car feels like you've put a tune on it. Throttle response is sharper, low-end torque is better, and highway acceleration is out of this world. Braking, too. The brakes bite so hard now.

You can spend $3500 to $5000 and lose about 6lbs - 8lbs per wheel and tire, purchasing wider forged wheels and wider tires.
OR
You can spend around $1500 and lose 10lbs - 13lbs per wheel and tire, keeping the stock width.

Which one is up to the owners discretion.

 

[Slapshot]

So, to answer your question in very basic form, the answer is No.

I didn't have to lower the car at all. My car has stock suspension.

Also, just to clarify again, I have not lost any performance compared to stock with this particular setup, and I drive the car really HARD. I keep getting personal messages in regards to this setup so I'll try to elaborate a bit more.

I specifically DIDN'T choose the P4S, because I drove a 2019 Type R with those tires in an 18" size, and I wasn't a fan. I could feel the performance loss immediately when I got behind the wheel. Steering input was not as sharp as stock, and the turn in felt slightly mushy. The tire was a bit too soft for me, and that made perfect sense since it was a summer tire. I can only imagine going wider in a P4S and making the tire even heavier.....that wouldn't be my cup of tea.

I called Tirerack and I spoke with one of their product managers when ordering my wheels and asked if they could recommend a much more stiffer tire and the gentleman said to get the DWS 06 Plus. I had heard of the DWS 06, but he said that the DWS 06 Plus was the DWS 06 on steriods. It was also the lightest tire sold in that size with very good ratings in dry, wet, and cold performance.

So, I got the DWS 06 Plus in 245/40/18 and man did that change the ride quality on my car. At OEM tire pressures, this tire is rock hard. The car on hard corners is extremely stable....absolutely no body roll in Sport or +R. My car rides exceptionally well, and the car feels more composed than the stock setup.

It doesn't snow where I live, so I didn't really get it for snow. I got the DWS 06 Plus because I wanted a stiff ride and I knew that I would be able to drive in really cold temps without any issues.

I also noticed something that nobody really talks about. The drive with DWS 06 Plus tires compared to P4S, you notice that the car cruises much easier in a straight line....almost as if there is less road friction holding the car from moving forward. Its a really good feeling, and you wont quite understand until you feel it for yourself. The car seems to want to move much quicker and feels very light on its feet.

It's hard to explain, but once you drive on a really lightweight setup, with a hard tire compound, it's hard to go to something softer and heavier...and that's the honest truth. A few lbs heavier per wheel is one too many lbs for me. You can get summer tires, or race compounds and get way better performance on the track, but on public roads (even driving really hard), I have not noticed any decline in any department with my setup. And again, this is STILL the lightest setup I have come across on this forum....all for $1500..not $5000. I would never pay more for a heavier setup.....doesn't make any sense to me.

Thanks, VERY much for taking the time to explain your experiences with this setup in such depth. I greatly appreciate the input. Based on what you have seen, the DWS 06 Plus must clearly be one of, if not, the greatest ultra all season tire available. And if it even came close to the P4s, much less what you describe, it's the tire bargain of the decade. Thanks so much for the information.

 

[Deleted member 47337]

Thanks, VERY much for taking the time to explain your experiences with this setup in such depth. I greatly appreciate the input. Based on what you have seen, the DWS 06 Plus must clearly be one of, if not, the greatest ultra all season tire available. And if it even came close to the P4s, much less what you describe, it's the tire bargain of the decade. Thanks so much for the information.

Yeah, I can honestly say it is one of the best tires I have ever driven on. Don't get me wrong, the P4s are good too, but on the Type R, DWS 06 Plus feels so much better. Totally different driving experience from one tire to another. Also, DWS 06 Plus is lighter than the P4s. =)

....and you're very welcome for all the info. I try to be as helpful and honest as I can. I have been through a lot with the Type R so I know A LOT about the FK8 platform.

I'm always here if you have any questions. I might be able to chime in and help.

 

[Slapshot]

Yeah, I can honestly say it is one of the best tires I have ever driven on. Don't get me wrong, the P4s are good too, but on the Type R, DWS 06 Plus feels so much better. Totally different driving experience from one tire to another. Also, DWS 06 Plus is lighter than the P4s.

Couldn't pass it up based on what you have seen in performance of this setup, and especially the price. All of which make sense, as this is only a twelve, to, at most eighteen month expenditure, after which they will be of no use, as I will be selling the car.
Just called Tire Rack intending to order the same setup as yours. Unfortunately, they only have three of those wheels in stock, and no more until the end of October. Which is two months away. They are also closing out the DWS 06+ tires, so those should really be ordered now to ensure I get them in the size I need, but, with the wheel choice now up in the air, no idea what to do.

The only other workable Montegi wheel, which is also light enough, is in 18x9.5, and I don't know enough about how much that would affect the overall setup.

 

[Slapshot]

More confusing by the minute. The other workable wheel is shown at Tire Rack as 18x8.5:

MOTEGI RACING MR146 SS6 Black Painted (tirerack.com)

But Montegi says its only available in 18x9.5:

MR146 SS6 - Motegi Racing

 

[Deleted member 47337]

More confusing by the minute. The other workable wheel is shown at Tire Rack as 18x8.5:

MOTEGI RACING MR146 SS6 Black Painted (tirerack.com)

But Montegi says its only available in 18x9.5:

MR146 SS6 - Motegi Racing

Hmmm, hold on let me check them out.

GIve me a few minutes..

 

[Deleted member 47337]

More confusing by the minute. The other workable wheel is shown at Tire Rack as 18x8.5:

MOTEGI RACING MR146 SS6 Black Painted (tirerack.com)

But Montegi says its only available in 18x9.5:

MR146 SS6 - Motegi Racing

THEY DO HAVE THE MOTEGI! =)

Motegi MR145 Traklite 3, this is the same wheel I have +35 offset, with DWS 06 Plus. GREAT PRICE and LIGHT. You can get the regular DWS 06 tire, instead of the DWS 06 +. It's only .8 lbs heavier than the + version. That's definitely something you wont even notice. Seems to be the same tire, and just about the same exact tire compound. It will be just as stiff as the DWS 06 +. I just got off the phone with John from Tirerack and he said that it's literally the same tire, just a different part number.

 

[Deleted member 47337]

More confusing by the minute. The other workable wheel is shown at Tire Rack as 18x8.5:

MOTEGI RACING MR146 SS6 Black Painted (tirerack.com)

But Montegi says its only available in 18x9.5:

MR146 SS6 - Motegi Racing

You're right, there is only 3 in stock...

Okay, let me do some digging. One sec..

 

[spyder57]

THEY DO HAVE THE MOTEGI! =)

Motegi MR145 Traklite 3, this is the same wheel I have +35 offset, with DWS 06 Plus. GREAT PRICE and LIGHT. You can get the regular DWS 06 tire, instead of the DWS 06 +. It's only .8 lbs heavier than the + version. That's definitely something you wont even notice. Seems to be the same tire, and just about the same exact tire compound. It will be just as stiff as the DWS 06 +. I just got off the phone with John from Tirerack and he said that it's literally the same tire, just a different part number.

+35 offset is torque steer city and you will get rubbing at full compression.

 

[Deleted member 47337]

More confusing by the minute. The other workable wheel is shown at Tire Rack as 18x8.5:

MOTEGI RACING MR146 SS6 Black Painted (tirerack.com)

But Montegi says its only available in 18x9.5:

MR146 SS6 - Motegi Racing

Enkei RPF1 - Not sure if you like them as far as looks, but they are super-light, same width as my setup, and an even better offset of +40. Fantastic wheel, great price.

Motegi MR146 SS6 - Great looking wheel, 1 lb heavier than my wheel, but you still get a ridiculously low wheel weight and tire weight with this. VERY GOOD price.

I would get the Motegi MR146 SS6 and put on some DWS 06s and call it a day! You'll love it. Tirerack will ship it to you mounted, balanced, with new lug nuts, the tool to install them. You can literally put the wheels on yourself in your garage. They package them up VERY well, and all you would need is a jack and you're good to go.

 

[Deleted member 47337]

+35 offset is torque steer city and you will get rubbing at full compression.

Are you speaking from experience or talking from you know where?

I have this setup, and you don't rub in any circumstance. What are you talking about?

We are talking about an 8.5" wheel width. Do you even know what you are saying? You have to go out so far with an 8.5" wheel to rub.

I also do not have any torque steer. I have this exact same setup, with the same offset and wheel width, and so do so many out here in South Carolina. Nobody has any noticable torque steer and absolutely no rubbing issues.

I hate to say this but it's people like you that spread misinformation on these forums. Not good my friend.

 

[spyder57]

Are you speaking from experience or talking from you know where?

I have this setup, and you don't rub in any circumstance. What are you talking about?

We are talking about an 8.5" wheel width.

I also do not have any torque steer. Don't come spreading bs. I have this exact same setup, with the same offset and wheel width, and so do so many out here in South Carolina. Nobody has any torque steer or rubbing issues.

It's people like you that spread misinformation on these forums.

Lol how hard do you push? Are you accelerating hard out of corners? Do you track or autocross? It's basic physics, you are altering the scrub radius significantly going from +60 to +35mm, you're changing the steering geometry.

In regards to rubbing, you may not get under your conditions, but under full compression you will almost certainly get rubbing.

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