Overheating at Track...Let me try this again!

dsm_mikey

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Okay...here we go.

I purchased a 2021 Honda Civic Type R with the idea of cutting down consumables cost at HPDE events. I also have a 2016 Mustang GT350R that I love to track. Couple problems...it goes through tires (roughly $1800 per set) and brakes ($550 per set) in one weekend. In addition, the cost to insure it for a weekend is around $400. So...roughly $2750 just in consumables every weekend not including the cost of the track time.

With the Civic Type R I am looking to cut these costs by a huge amount. One set of $800 tires per YEAR, 2 Sets of $350 pads per YEAR. Yeah it won't be as fast, but that's ok with me.

I took some pre-emptive steps with the CTR before I took it to the track for the first time.
-Bought & Installed a C&R Track spec Radiator
-Bought & Installed a C&R Intercooler
-Added 18x9.5 +45 Enkei TS-5 Wheels w/ 265/35/18 Hankook RS4 Tires
-Added Raybestos ST43 F&R brake pads
-Added Castrol SRF Brake Fluid
-No other modifications/tunes/etc...

I had posted on another thread the issues I had at my first track day with this car. I had some issues...
Location: Road America Elkhart Lake, WI (Lap Length: 4.048 Miles)
Temperature: 72 Degrees, overcast
Tires Used: 265/35/18 Hankook RS4 w/ Enkei 18x9.5 +45 wheels
Brake Pads: Raybestos ST43 F&R w/ SRF Fluid
Alignment specs: Front Pins Pulled, everything else stock
Mods:
1. C&R Track Spec Radiator
2. C&R Intercooler
No Other mods
Lap Time: 2:41.9 w/ overheating issues

Overview:

My first session out I did not have the heater on because I assumed with the C&R radiator and intercooler I was good to go! I figured out by the second lap that I may have issues...the temp gauge started to rise and the power felt like it was getting pulled. By the 3rd lap the temp gauge was close to 3/4 and power was getting pulled a lot. By the 4th lap I think I was 4 or 5 bars away from H and power was REALLY pulled.

Needless to say I was very disappointed with this!

The next session out I had the heater full on w the AC off. The temp seemed to rise slower and never got as hot, but the power was getting pulled significantly by the second lap. Example...going into turn 5 on the warm-up lap I could hit 131-132 entering the braking zone, by lap 2 it was 125-ish even braking later. As the car got hotter it would slow even more.

I was disappointed with overheating issues, yes. I was not disappointed with how the car handled especially considering the Hankook RS4 tire which are not very sticky tires, but they wear like iron. I was able to sustain 86-87 mph around the carousel...this is a great number considering no suspension mods and RS4 tires! The car can handle and brake extremely well and it makes me want to sort these heating issues asap.

I have been told by others on the forum that this is not normal and there must be something wrong.

Remember, I am having these issues at only 72 degrees ambient temperature!

Here are the steps I will be taking to make sure the car will be able to make full power without overheating for full 20-30 minute track sessions:

1. I am pulling the front bumper off the car and checking to make sure that all radiator ducting is in place and that it is boxed in properly.
2. Vacuum bleeding the radiator to make sure there is no air in the system.
3. Removing C&R Intercooler and replacing with the OEM intercooler. If I can keep the car cool, then I will look at reinstalling this. The car is pulling so much power it has to be due to engine cooling (Ecu pulling boost/timing), not hot intake air (intercooler). If the C&R intercooler is blocking even a little bit more air than the oem intercooler-it needs to go!
4. Adding a vented hood. I am cutting a stock hood and adding the large Race Louvers brand hood vent.
5. Will RE-SEND with these updated parts and see how it does. I would also like to add an aftermarket oil cooler if these above changes do not have a drastic effect on how the car cools.

Am I missing anything? Any other ideas?

I am very concerned because I had these overheat issues when it was only 72 degrees outside. Road America is a very fast track with 3 large straights that should be able to cool the car sufficiently. I really hope I find an issue I missed when I pull the front bumper cover. Either way, I will be pulling the C&R intercooler and changing back to OEM until the car can stay cool and produce full power throughout a 20-30 minute session.
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b2point0h

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Okay...here we go.

I purchased a 2021 Honda Civic Type R with the idea of cutting down consumables cost at HPDE events. I also have a 2016 Mustang GT350R that I love to track. Couple problems...it goes through tires (roughly $1800 per set) and brakes ($550 per set) in one weekend. In addition, the cost to insure it for a weekend is around $400. So...roughly $2750 just in consumables every weekend not including the cost of the track time.

With the Civic Type R I am looking to cut these costs by a huge amount. One set of $800 tires per YEAR, 2 Sets of $350 pads per YEAR. Yeah it won't be as fast, but that's ok with me.

I took some pre-emptive steps with the CTR before I took it to the track for the first time.
-Bought & Installed a C&R Track spec Radiator
-Bought & Installed a C&R Intercooler
-Added 18x9.5 +45 Enkei TS-5 Wheels w/ 265/35/18 Hankook RS4 Tires
-Added Raybestos ST43 F&R brake pads
-Added Castrol SRF Brake Fluid
-No other modifications/tunes/etc...

I had posted on another thread the issues I had at my first track day with this car. I had some issues...
Location: Road America Elkhart Lake, WI (Lap Length: 4.048 Miles)
Temperature: 72 Degrees, overcast
Tires Used: 265/35/18 Hankook RS4 w/ Enkei 18x9.5 +45 wheels
Brake Pads: Raybestos ST43 F&R w/ SRF Fluid
Alignment specs: Front Pins Pulled, everything else stock
Mods:
1. C&R Track Spec Radiator
2. C&R Intercooler
No Other mods
Lap Time: 2:41.9 w/ overheating issues

Overview:

My first session out I did not have the heater on because I assumed with the C&R radiator and intercooler I was good to go! I figured out by the second lap that I may have issues...the temp gauge started to rise and the power felt like it was getting pulled. By the 3rd lap the temp gauge was close to 3/4 and power was getting pulled a lot. By the 4th lap I think I was 4 or 5 bars away from H and power was REALLY pulled.

Needless to say I was very disappointed with this!

The next session out I had the heater full on w the AC off. The temp seemed to rise slower and never got as hot, but the power was getting pulled significantly by the second lap. Example...going into turn 5 on the warm-up lap I could hit 131-132 entering the braking zone, by lap 2 it was 125-ish even braking later. As the car got hotter it would slow even more.

I was disappointed with overheating issues, yes. I was not disappointed with how the car handled especially considering the Hankook RS4 tire which are not very sticky tires, but they wear like iron. I was able to sustain 86-87 mph around the carousel...this is a great number considering no suspension mods and RS4 tires! The car can handle and brake extremely well and it makes me want to sort these heating issues asap.

I have been told by others on the forum that this is not normal and there must be something wrong.

Here are the steps I will be taking to make sure the car will be able to make full power without overheating for full 20-30 minute track sessions:

1. I am pulling the front off the car and checking to make sure that all radiator ducting is in place and that it is boxed in properly.
2. Vacuum bleeding the radiator to make sure there is no air in the system.
3. Removing C&R Intercooler and replacing with the OEM intercooler. If I can keep the car cool, then I can look at reinstalling this. The car is pulling so much power if it is due to engine cooling because the C&R intercooler is blocking even a little bit more air than the oem intercooler-it needs to go!
4. Adding a vented hood. I am cutting a stock hood and adding the large Race Louvers brand hood vent.
5. Will RE-SEND with these updated parts and see how it does. I would also like to add an aftermarket oil cooler if these above changes do not have a drastic effect on how the car cools.

Am I missing anything? Any other ideas?

I am very concerned because I had these overheat issues when it was only 72 degrees outside. Road America is a very fast track with 3 large straights that should be able to cool the car sufficiently. I really hope I find an issue I missed when I pull the front bumper cover. Either way, I will be pulling the C&R intercooler and changing back to OEM until the car can stay cool and produce full power throughout the session.
Seems like you've got the right parts and the right methodology. I would definitely recommend an oil cooler and the vented hood. These 2 things will help reduce the car heating up. They will not fully prevent the car from overheating. On a 20-30 min session, you just can't run the whole thing at full power.

I know you're not tuned, but what I've done is use an ethanol tune (e30 - e60) and this really helps keep the car cooler without pulling timing.
 

.grimace

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Sadly this is what happens with these cars. You’re getting the right parts C&R is great.

Go dual oil coolers and a vented hood. Single oil cooler might buy you an extra lap at best.
 

NapalmEnema

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If you were at 72 degrees with all that additional cooling, could driving style be at play? Are you perhaps used to driving the GT350 which necessitates being at 5k RPM all the time and you're running this one too hot for too long consistently to reach that boil? When you watch the Nurberbring run of the 2017 with similar ambient temps you can perhaps watch and see how he's shifting and where he's holding to adjust your style?

Just a theory.

I'd expect some heat issues in like Houston mid August hitting the track hard, but at 72 degrees dunno that seems odd for sure esp in a 2021 with all those extra bits.

Good luck resolving what's causing the issue though! Post up what you determine.
 
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dsm_mikey

dsm_mikey

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If you were at 72 degrees with all that additional cooling, could driving style be at play? Are you perhaps used to driving the GT350 which necessitates being at 5k RPM all the time and you're running this one too hot for too long consistently to reach that boil? When you watch the Nurberbring run of the 2017 with similar ambient temps you can perhaps watch and see how he's shifting and where he's holding to adjust your style?

Just a theory.

I'd expect some heat issues in like Houston mid August hitting the track hard, but at 72 degrees dunno that seems odd for sure esp in a 2021 with all those extra bits.

Good luck resolving what's causing the issue though! Post up what you determine.
I agree that driving style can exacerbate this overheating issue.

My first session out I ran to redline everytime. After I discovered this just will not work with this car, I started short shifting whenever possible and using 6500 as a shift point. This short shifting combined with running the heater on full blast did help. Still had power being pulled after the first lap, but the temp gauge increased at a slower rate.

When I saw that short shifting and running the heat on full still caused heat issues, I knew major corrective action was needed.
I think if I were to use 5900-6000 as a shift point and short shifted at every opportunity, it might be enough in 72 degree weather to maintain.

I am hoping to find a valid cooling solution that does allow you to drive the car the way you want at whatever track you want.

I am guessing the answer will probably be the following:

1. C&R Track radiator
2. Large functional hood vent
3. Oil cooler
4. Possible opening up of front grill (even 2020-2021) for more airflow.
5. OEM intercooler, No tune, No other mods.

We will see. I have 2 open track days coming up that are green flag all day. You go out and come in when you please. I am hoping to figure out LOGR so I can get actual temps for reference. Maybe I can do a stock hood for a session and then bolt on the vented hood for another session so there is data on just this one mod.
 
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TypeSiR

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Lust

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Double check the obvious like you stated already. Something seems very off though. I know that track has some really long straights but it shouldn’t get that hot.

If the issue persists, more air flow is needed to maximize radiator efficiency. Open up the front grill and vent out the hood.

Next step should be to cool the oil with an oil cooler. This will reduce the load on the radiator too.

Are you using 0w-20 oil?

You can also experiment with the coolant mixture. I run 1gal Honda coolant, 1gal distilled water, 1 bottle of VP Cool Down.

I just attended a track day at Thunderhill East in weather that reached 93F. There’s roughly 3 straight away where the car exceeds 100 MPH. No overheating issues on my setup even with bolt ons and a tune. Peak ECT was 235. IATs were more of a detriment than ECT sadly.
 

AlphaDigital

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ill have to ask one of our local guys if he does anything else for his FK8. I believe all he has is the koyo rad and it seems like hes keeping his temps in check.
 


metal_driver

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I would highly recommend at least 1 oil cooler (for example a USR side mount) along with a larger front grill to let more air in (E-Bay or J's or J's knock off). The vented hood should also help. You've already got one of the best rads and i/c's avail for this platform.

I also highly recommend a turbo blanket and some foil wrap on the inlet pipe which sits directly over the furnace (turbo) to help keep the heat down in the engine bay to start with.
 

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Try getting the Acuity Reverse Flow Radiator Hoses. I unfortunately added them at the same time I did my Koyo radiator so I wasn't able to tell how much more of a difference they made but they claim to cool by 4.5 degrees F. (Thank you Acuity for the correction)
 
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Learn2turn:)

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As Staed:
Turbo blanket and wrap or coat everything containing heat and do a Coolant additive/mix

Not Yet Stated:
Remove the cowl weatherstrip and remove the aluminum undertray and open the side vents.
 

Lust

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As Staed:
Turbo blanket and wrap or coat everything containing heat and do a Coolant additive/mix

Not Yet Stated:
Remove the cowl weatherstrip and remove the aluminum undertray and open the side vents.
Removing the cowl and belly pan can potentially be harmful to cooling as it creates high pressure zones.
 
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ACUITY

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Try getting the Acuity Reverse Flow Radiator Hoses. I unfortunately added them at the same time I did my Koyo radiator so I wasn't able to tell how much more of a difference they made but they claim to cool by 10 degrees (if memory serves right).
Our data when testing the reverse flow hoses with HPD showed 4.5F (2.5C) reduction in cooling temps at peak power on hot days. 10F would be amazing, but incorrect, unfortunately. Posting to avoid misinformation spreading. :)

~Russ
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