Turbo Upgrade Sneak Peek

[DontDrinknDerive]

Why would the turbo upgrade be less reliable if it makes the same torque?

HP = TQ * RPM / 5252

The whole point of adding a bigger turbo, in imo, would be to get some gains in tq/HP. If the cvt can't reliably handle those gains without a careful tune, then I would rather get a regular tune and save my money for other upgrades.

Although, I do agree if tuned to provide equal torque, then the bigger turbo shouldn't hurt.

But why would someone buy a bigger turbo if they weren't planning on tapping into the gains they get from the upgrade?

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[VitViper]

The whole point of adding a bigger turbo, in imo, would be to get some gains in tq/HP. If the cvt can't reliably handle those gains without a careful tune, then I would rather get a regular tune and save my money for other upgrades.

Although, I do agree if tuned to provide equal torque, then the bigger turbo shouldn't hurt.

But why would someone buy a bigger turbo if they weren't planning on tapping into the gains they get from the upgrade?

Because 250hp is faster than 210hp?

If your car with "just a tune" is making 230tq at 3500-4000 rpm it'll drop like a rock by 6000 rpm to roughly 180tq, which is about 205-210hp. This happens because the factory turbo is small and not efficient at higher RPM. You're still causing "230tq" worth of stress to the trans.

If you put on a bigger turbo and now it makes 230tq at 6000 rpm. How much HP is this? HP = TQ * RPM / 5252 therefore ~260hp. Same level of torque, better powerband. Not any different "stress" to the trans because the "torque" it has to transmit is the same, but the engine is now doing "more work" and your car is going to be a lot faster.

You're effectively changing the powerband of the motor with the turbo. And given the CVT doesn't even live in the mid range the huge torque this motor/factory turbo can make isn't all that useful on the CVT to begin with (on the 6MT it's cool for a day or two unti you get bored with it and want top end to GO FAST).

I can draw a visual in Excel if that helps? lol

 

[VitViper]

Here's an example -- "Stock tuned" is our car TUNED on 87 octane (blue/orange plots). See it still made 230tq... Yellow/grey plots are an example tq/hp curve with a better turbo. Which one do you think is going to be a quicker and "more fun" drive? Trust me, peaky mid range TQ gets boring real fast. Owned plenty of cars that are like that -- it's also not very useful on the CVT. Your options on how and how much power you want to put through the CVT are totally in your control -- you can say hey, limit it to 210 tq --- and it's still 240hp and will be plenty reliable.

 

[dc2turbo]

you will need to make a color blind version too. people will still not understand it

 

[DontDrinknDerive]

Because 250hp is faster than 210hp?

If your car with "just a tune" is making 230tq at 3500-4000 rpm it'll drop like a rock by 6000 rpm to roughly 180tq, which is about 205-210hp. This happens because the factory turbo is small and not efficient at higher RPM. You're still causing "230tq" worth of stress to the trans.

If you put on a bigger turbo and now it makes 230tq at 6000 rpm. How much HP is this? HP = TQ * RPM / 5252 therefore ~260hp. Same level of torque, better powerband. Not any different "stress" to the trans because the "torque" it has to transmit is the same, but the engine is now doing "more work" and your car is going to be a lot faster.

You're effectively changing the powerband of the motor with the turbo. And given the CVT doesn't even live in the mid range the huge torque this motor/factory turbo can make isn't all that useful on the CVT to begin with (on the 6MT it's cool for a day or two unti you get bored with it and want top end to GO FAST).

I can draw a visual in Excel if that helps? lol

Sure, I'm sure this entire thread would benefit from a graphic.

 

[VitViper]

you will need to make a color blind version too. people will still not understand it

LOL.

 

[Draken187]

Because 250hp is faster than 210hp?

If your car with "just a tune" is making 230tq at 3500-4000 rpm it'll drop like a rock by 6000 rpm to roughly 180tq, which is about 205-210hp. This happens because the factory turbo is small and not efficient at higher RPM. You're still causing "230tq" worth of stress to the trans.

If you put on a bigger turbo and now it makes 230tq at 6000 rpm. How much HP is this? HP = TQ * RPM / 5252 therefore ~260hp. Same level of torque, better powerband. Not any different "stress" to the trans because the "torque" it has to transmit is the same, but the engine is now able to complete its work more efficiently therefore getting more work done and your car is going to be a lot faster.

You're effectively changing the powerband of the motor with the turbo. And given the CVT doesn't even live in the mid range the huge torque this motor/factory turbo can make isn't all that useful on the CVT to begin with (on the 6MT it's cool for a day or two unti you get bored with it and want top end to GO FAST).

I can draw a visual in Excel if that helps? lol

The god of tuning has spoken! All nay sayers are now vanquished! Lol joking..

I would change one piece of wording tho..
See above in red

 

[Draken187]

@VitViper might be getting ahead of myself. But even a large estimate.. Within hundreds $ or thousands $? Gotta start saving..

 

[DontDrinknDerive]

Here's an example -- "Stock tuned" is our car TUNED on 87 octane (blue/orange plots). See it still made 230tq... Yellow/grey plots are an example tq/hp curve with a better turbo. Which one do you think is going to be a quicker and "more fun" drive? Trust me, peaky mid range TQ gets boring real fast. Owned plenty of cars that are like that -- it's also not very useful on the CVT. Your options on how and how much power you want to put through the CVT are totally in your control -- you can say hey, limit it to 210 tq --- and it's still 240hp and will be plenty reliable.

That makes sense. I'm liking the idea of limiting to ~210-220 tq, because like I said, I going conservative with my mods.

Do you mind updating that graphic with stock no tune for completeness please?

 

[andyboyd102]

Is swapping out the turbine a large undertaking?? What do you think the DIY time would be?? Is there a close range price out there yet???

 

[Draken187]

Is swapping out the turbine a large undertaking?? What do you think the DIY time would be?? Is there a close range price out there yet???

Dunno exactly what he is doing.. As he only did a teaser.. So i dunno if hes gonna give us more til hes ready to unveil.. I mean.. If the numbers hes talking come true. I will no longer have a civic ex-t.. Il rename it. A civic ex-r. No i wont rebadge.. Since i will at some point have a type r sitting next to it.. Will be a nice comparison..

As far as cost i asked.. I mean.. Even if he tells me something anywere sorta near.. Lets say its gonna be $500.. Tell me anywere from $300-$1500.. Or if its gonna be $4000... Tell me anywere from $2000-$6000...

 

[maddmatt02]

Dunno exactly what he is doing.. As he only did a teaser.. So i dunno if hes gonna give us more til hes ready to unveil.. I mean.. If the numbers hes talking come true. I will no longer have a civic ex-t.. Il rename it. A civic ex-r. No i wont rebadge.. Since i will at some point have a type r sitting next to it.. Will be a nice comparison..

As far as cost i asked.. I mean.. Even if he tells me something anywere sorta near.. Lets say its gonna be $500.. Tell me anywere from $300-$1500.. Or if its gonna be $4000... Tell me anywere from $2000-$6000...

Far more time already passed to recoup costs and many companies doing it but a pair of "hybrid" turbos for the n54 are between 1500 and 4k or so but I think the 4k setups come with some plumbing maybe... Pretty sure it's basically the same modification to a td03 on that platform, just x 2... I would guess this would come in under a grand but it costs to be first so who knows.

 

[Draken187]

Far more time already passed to recoup costs and many companies doing it but a pair of "hybrid" turbos for the n54 are between 1500 and 4k or so but I think the 4k setups come with some plumbing maybe... Pretty sure it's basically the same modification to a td03 on that platform, just x 2... I would guess this would come in under a grand but it costs to be first so who knows.

Ya not trying to be first... Or second i should say.. Since im sure vit is first..

 

[maddmatt02]

Ya not trying to be first... Or second i should say.. Since im sure vit is first..

That's actually what I meant by first. You'll get one of the "first" available if you buy from vit.

 

[SilverGhost]

Aheeeem yea I'm in line too!!!

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