Top Gear mag op-ed: Honda shouldn't chase 'Ring records

BarracksSi

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Threads
13
Messages
2,188
Reaction score
1,298
Location
DC
Vehicle(s)
'17 Civic Sport Touring Hatch; '17 CR-V EX. Formerly '02 EP3.
Country flag
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/opinion/opinion-why-honda-shouldnt-chase-nurburgring-records
Paul Horrell said:
The right question is, should Honda be chasing a ‘Ring record at all? And, as a subsidiary, will that actually harm the Type-R as a fast road car?

My clear answers: no and yes.

First, the front-wheel-drive ‘Ring record is a silly thing to be looking at. Because implicit in the very title of the record is that rear-drive or all-drive are actually better arrangements for track times. Perhaps then we should have a ‘Ring record for cars driven only in first gear. Or those towing a trailer.

So Honda – and VW and Seat and Renault before them – are simply highlighting the unsuitability of their cars for the job.
I think he fudges a detail by not recognizing the FK8's dual-mode dampers (a solution to the problem of daily-driving a track monster), but his broader point — about auto manufacturers using the Nurburgring as a badge of race breeding and applying it to whatever platform they want — is not easily dismissed.

(doesn't dissuade me from wanting an FK8, tho ;) )
Sponsored

 

Kullervo

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
32
Reaction score
37
Location
Cincinnati
Vehicle(s)
2011 Civic Si
Country flag
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/opinion/opinion-why-honda-shouldnt-chase-nurburgring-records


I think he fudges a detail by not recognizing the FK8's dual-mode dampers (a solution to the problem of daily-driving a track monster), but his broader point — about auto manufacturers using the Nurburgring as a badge of race breeding and applying it to whatever platform they want — is not easily dismissed.

(doesn't dissuade me from wanting an FK8, tho ;) )
There's a large logical fallacy there, though. His entire point is based on the premise that the car was designed solely to take down the record in question, which is clearly inaccurate. He even alludes to it when he says the Golf only has two seats, so he seems to have some understanding of the dichotomy.

This is just a character assasination piece.
 

VarmintCong

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Threads
49
Messages
1,640
Reaction score
869
Location
Taiwan
Vehicle(s)
2023 Ford Focus ST Line X (sold 2020 Si sedan)
Country flag
I think UK B roads are so crappy that cars tuned for the track are poorly suited to British roads, that's probably where this comes from.
 

petem

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Threads
1
Messages
344
Reaction score
410
Location
UK
Vehicle(s)
Soon to be FK8.
I think UK B roads are so crappy that cars tuned for the track are poorly suited to British roads, that's probably where this comes from.
You're actually better with an off-road 4x4 on some of the roads in the UK now! There are more potholes than road, and there are some holes in my local village over a foot deep and wide enough to swallow even a 20" wheel, so best not to hit something like that at speed (even more so if you're on a motorbike).

Even so, I don't think too many people who are considering a Type R in the UK will be upset that Honda set a fast time with it at the ring. Mine will probably never see a track, but tuning it to be good on a track is part of what you expect from a CTR and knowing how it's probably going to feel to drive is certainly a large part of why I want one, even if it's not ideal for our less than smooth UK roads. I've had cars before where the suspension was too stiff to be great for normal use for one thing, but it's worth living with it for the rare times when you do find a stretch of open road where you can "make good progress" (as our police would say).

At least we'll have a softer option on the CTR - it will be interesting to see just how comfortable "comfort" mode actually is.
 


OP
OP
BarracksSi

BarracksSi

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Threads
13
Messages
2,188
Reaction score
1,298
Location
DC
Vehicle(s)
'17 Civic Sport Touring Hatch; '17 CR-V EX. Formerly '02 EP3.
Country flag
I've had cars before where the suspension was too stiff to be great for normal use for one thing, but it's worth living with it for the rare times when you do find a stretch of open road where you can "make good progress" (as our police would say).
That's how my EP was with the suspension I had on it. Most days, it was just plain uncomfortable, but when you romped on it, it was so much fun.

Sure would've been nice with a "comfort" button, though. Maybe my wife wouldn't have started to hate it so much.
 

S&R

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2017
Threads
1
Messages
77
Reaction score
133
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
Itr
One of the worst write up's I have ever read. The entire point of racing ANYTHING is to win and beat cars/lap times. Without any competition, there's no racing. Also the ring has become the standard track for global proving grounds. So it's ok for Porsche and Lamborghini to set records but not a civic?? Racing has hundreds of different classes and types. Fwd racing has been going on for decades and has proved to the world with modern engineering, can take down rwd or awd cars. As a fellow auto enthusiast, I don't understand how the editor could have that pov. I have owned "ferrari's, lotus's, and 911's" and currently still own a GTR, and you know what I love racing the most?? My race prepped 2000 integra gsr. Yes we all know physics provides rwd and awd cars a greater and easier opportunity for better lap times on a track, but that's the whole point of front wheel drive! You have to work for it more!! A fwd WIN is what separates and defines a great driver from the rest who drive rwd or awd. I simply don't understand how you can discount a fwd car when they can take down goliaths....maybe the editor is upset a civic can beat his m3 around a racetrack? If that's the case, maybe he should try driving the civic type r when it comes out? It might change his tune.... or he should just go buy something faster than a m3 that can keep up with a civic. I have never had a nerve struck this hard....
 

jzj323

Senior Member
Joined
May 2, 2017
Threads
1
Messages
277
Reaction score
231
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Vehicle(s)
2015 Honda Civic Si and 2007 Toyota Highlander Limited Hybrid
One of the worst write up's I have ever read. The entire point of racing ANYTHING is to win and beat cars/lap times. Without any competition, there's no racing. Also the ring has become the standard track for global proving grounds. So it's ok for Porsche and Lamborghini to set records but not a civic?? Racing has hundreds of different classes and types. Fwd racing has been going on for decades and has proved to the world with modern engineering, can take down rwd or awd cars. As a fellow auto enthusiast, I don't understand how the editor could have that pov. I have owned "ferrari's, lotus's, and 911's" and currently still own a GTR, and you know what I love racing the most?? My race prepped 2000 integra gsr. Yes we all know physics provides rwd and awd cars a greater and easier opportunity for better lap times on a track, but that's the whole point of front wheel drive! You have to work for it more!! A fwd WIN is what separates and defines a great driver from the rest who drive rwd or awd. I simply don't understand how you can discount a fwd car when they can take down goliaths....maybe the editor is upset a civic can beat his m3 around a racetrack? If that's the case, maybe he should try driving the civic type r when it comes out? It might change his tune.... or he should just go buy something faster than a m3 that can keep up with a civic. I have never had a nerve struck this hard....
Couldn't of said it better Amen!
Sponsored

 


 


Top