Shame on Honda, won't ever buy another

[Seven7h]

SHAME ON HONDA. They saved a couple hundred bucks by refusing to perform the TCM TSB for me for cars stuck in Park that wont start (which applies to all 2016 Civics!) but they lost several tens of thousands in future purchases from me. I am paying for this TSB out of pocket because Honda would rather nickel and dime their way to a better financial quarter than take care of customers who spend tens of thousands of dollars their products. Feeling so used right now.

I had several people at work asking how I liked the car as they look at buying one... Im letting them all know not to bother with a Honda. This is the only car I've ever owned that wouldn't start... less than 1 year old! 3 Fords, 3 Toyotas, and this Honda is the least reliable of them all.

My girlfriend just got stranded with the car when out shopping.

Stuck in Park, accessory will turn on but the engine wouldnt crank. Battery was fine, jumping didnt help. Car reports tons of critical errors on the dash screen... engine, transmission, parking brake, etc. Clearly this is the TCM issue Honda has the TSB for. ITS A KNOWN ISSUE!

I got it running again by disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, but this is sure to clear any codes that may have been stored. First American Honda Customer Care denied there was any such TSB. When I cited the specific TSB number, they realized their mistake and said they still won't perform the TSB unless a Honda tech pulls the proper diagnostic code from the car.

That means Honda wants me to drive around this ticking time-bomb until it strands me somewhere again, locked in Park, and then get it dragged onto a tow truck (electronic ebrake cant be disabled) and brought to a dealership, where they will certainly not have the proper replacement part in stock, and will probably take a day or two just to get looked at. And even then there are no guarantees the code will be there either. So I may go days without my car for nothing.

The TSB part costs them less then $100, and the labor is only about half an hour. But to American Honda its worth having me drive around stressed and worried about a breakdown, and messing up multiple days of plans and work when it does fail to start again, just to respect their red tape.

Honda should employ more reasonable people and policies in cases where there is a known problem like this.

Never buying Honda cars or motorcycles again. Pathetic customer support.

Sponsored

 

[E-Rod]

Sucks that it happened but try not to let it make you hate the brand. Did the dealership try and Honda refused to pay for it or was the dealership just being stubborn about the issue itself?

I remember going through these motions with the 3rd gear problems on the 2006+ Sis, some dealerships would do the repair no problem and others would tell you "only if you're within the VIN range" (even while the issue would manifest itself).

If it was the dealership and you feel wronged, contact Honda of America and complain directly. You'd be surprised what Honda will do to make things right.

 

[CivicLX2016]

This person created an account just for this post. Calling BS....

 

[Seven7h]

This person created an account just for this post. Calling BS....

Wow... that doesnt make it BS. It means that its the only means of recourse I have.

Yes, I made it to gripe, the same way I only bother to rate on Yelp if my experience is exceptionally good or exceptionally bad.

Who would research to the point of being familiar with specific TSBs just to make Honda look bad for fun? God some people are paranoid.

Just because I didnt make my first post some random "hi I bought a car" doesnt make my post any less legitimate.

 

[Seven7h]

Sucks that it happened but try not to let it make you hate the brand. Did the dealership try and Honda refused to pay for it or was the dealership just being stubborn about the issue itself?

I remember going through these motions with the 3rd gear problems on the 2006+ Sis, some dealerships would do the repair no problem and others would tell you "only if you're within the VIN range" (even while the issue would manifest itself).

If it was the dealership and you feel wronged, contact Honda of America and complain directly. You'd be surprised what Honda will do to make things right.

That's the problem... it was Honda America, not the dealership. The dealership said they can't perform the TSB because Honda wont pay them for it unless they see the code.

So I thought calling Honda America would help clarify this and get them approval. Instead they were dismissive and said "we won't approve that". They told me to take the car in and have them scan for a code even though I just told them the car wont have a code stored because to fix it I had to reconnect the battery. They just went silent and had no suggestion for me... they believe their responsibility ends with their non-solution statement.

It's really sad that apparently within 30 mins of researching I know more than many service advisers at dealerships and reps at Honda America. The mediocrity these days is astounding.

 

[kritz]

"Shame on every car name known" Every car company in the world has these stories sorry to say.

 

[Seven7h]

"Shame on every car name known" Every car company in the world has these stories sorry to say.

Tell that to the 3 Fords and 3 Toyotas and motorcycles of other brands Ive had no such problem with. I had 0 issues with any Toyotas and with the Fords, their customer care team always did the right thing.

Not to mention none of those had any such issue where the vehicle literally wouldnt start and couldnt be moved. Thats a severe issue and Honda refuses to pay a few bucks to address it.

My time is valuable to me and I refuse to play the "tow it in three times while we figure out how to do our jobs" routine. I know the cause and am sadly needing to take matters into my own hands.

Successful people make their own luck, and thats what I'm doing by fixing it out of pocket, instead of waiting around to be at the mercy of a $200 faulty part.

 

[kritz]

Point being every car company has pissed off owners. You seem to be making it sound like Honda is alone in this. I understand you are mad I would be too! Instead of fixing it I'd just get rid of it. Personally I never buy a first year redesign as it is well known they always have more bugs than year 2 or 3 cars overall.

 

[kritz]

Also I'd recommend bombing their Facebook page with complaints as well as the dealer you are using.(If you haven't already)

 

[Seven7h]

Point being every car company has pissed off owners. You seem to be making it sound like Honda is alone in this. I understand you are mad I would be too! Instead of fixing it I'd just get rid of it. Personally I never buy a first year redesign as it is well known they always have more bugs than year 2 or 3 cars overall.

I swear off first year redesigns too, though I forgot to check that with this car. I just saw reviews and test drove it while cross-shopping other cars.

Getting rid of it would hurt me more than Honda. You never get depreciation or tax back, so selling it realizes that loss. Its a good emotional decision but a bad financial one. It would probably mean throwing away about $5k, which I'm not willing to do. Instead I will just tell everyone I know for the next 10 years about how Honda operates. Even if it just costs them 1 sale, thats $18-23k of lost income for them, all so that they could save $200 today. Bad gamble on Honda's part.

Their customer reps basically told me to go pound sand, so I'll make sure they get the ramnifications of their poor policy and actions through lost sales. They really shouldn't make enemies of reasonable customers.

My dealership might be able to get it reimbursed for me (though the first dealership said they couldn't), at which point Honda will have paid *and* made an enemy of a customer along the way. A loss by any standard when viewing through the lens of game theory.

 

[kritz]

Well I hope everything works out for you. Hopefully the part fixes it.

 

[Seven7h]

Well I hope everything works out for you. Hopefully the part fixes it.

Thanks. Will report back on the outcome to help others, the way that the threads and videos about this exact problem I've found helped me:

http://www.civicx.com/threads/got-stranded-this-weekend.8571/

http://www.civicx.com/threads/civic-ex-t-transmission-control-module-tcm.9487/

https://www.10th<REMOVEME>civicforum.com/forum/169-2016-honda-civic-problems-issues/11690-civic-2016-wont-start.html#/topics/11690 (remove the "<REMOVEME>", not sure why they block that when its just information on another civic forum, not promoting)

 

[syncro87]

"Shame on every car name known" Every car company in the world has these stories sorry to say.

This is true. There are ticked off Ford, Toyota, VW, Porsche, BMW, and Kia owners over stuff like this. No car company is perfect. Frankly, Honda is no better or worse than anyone else in this regard.

OP, I can see why you're upset, but take yourself out of the situation for a minute and consider the following:

A company, Honda, Toyota, whoever, has to follow a protocol when it comes to warranty claims. If they don't you have utter chaos. The only consistent and fair way to process claims is to have a certified technician diagnose the issue, find a fault, and provide evidence of the fault to corporate. There is a system for getting faults handled, and you have to work within that framework. Does this mean it might be inconvenient? Yes, some inconvenience may be involved. But it's the only way to handle it. You can't just approve repairs or parts randomly when customers demand it. Customers, on the whole, are not technically savvy, have no expertise in diagnosis or repair. A guy calls you up, says he has a problem with his car, he knows there is a TSB on it, and he saw a youtube video of how to fix it, so he wants some parts or repairs pre-authorized before even visiting the dealership. That doesn't work. You can't run a service organization that way.

Of course Honda, Toyota, and Ford want to keep you as a customer. It goes without saying. However, that doesn't mean they can just throw out all protocol any time you or I are upset. The framework for handling repairs and technical service bulletins has to be followed. There is a process. I mean this respectfully, but think about it...the process can't just be thrown to the wolves when you or I are upset or it involves some inconvenience.

From what I can tell, and correct me if I'm wrong, you aren't upset that Honda will not fix your car. You are upset because to fix your car, they want you to follow a process that you find inconvenient. They want you to provide them with a broken car that they can diagnose then repair. You do not want to go through this hassle, as you feel that you've already done this step. You want them to approve a repair when an authorized technician has never seen your car. Am I correct? I am not trying to be critical, I am trying to make sure I understand the root of your being upset here.

It is highly inconvenient being stranded with a car that will not start. I get this. But a company cannot authorize a repair on a car every time a customer calls in demanding a part or service, based on nothing but the customer's word that something is wrong, whether the customer's issue matches a service bulletin or not. This would be anarchy. The world of auto warranty repair doesn't work that way.

I hate to tell you this, but had you experienced the same sort of issue with your Ford or Toyota, both of those companies would have handled the situation the same way. I highly doubt either of them would have approved a repair for an issue that had not been diagnosed by a respective factory tech. You got lucky and had a couple of Fords and Toyotas where you weren't in this situation. Had you been, though, I'm pretty sure it would have ended in the same way. Rest assured that there are plenty of Toyota and Ford owners out there with issues with their cars.

Honda is not handling this any differently than Ford would or Toyota would in the same situation. Having factory trained techs that diagnose and repair things using standardized methodology, diagnostic processes that are able to be replicated, etc, is how you ensure a consistent level of repair and service quality to your customer base. You don't just have a bunch of guys throwing parts at things when customers decide they should, TSB or not. It's not how you run an organization as large as Honda. It may be when you have a mom and pop corner store in a town of 500 people. It's not just cars. If your home air conditioner went out, Carrier or Trane probably aren't going to give you any parts without a diagnosis from a trained HVAC technician, even if their heat pump has a known issue with a documented TSB.


Not posting this to be a jerk, or to tell you that you should not be heated that your car has a problem. I'd be upset that my car died, too. The point I'm making is that warranty service has a process you have to follow to get things remedied. Honda is acting consistently with how every manufacturer handles issues like this. It just happened to happen to your Honda, so they are the focus of your ire. But had it been an Elantra, a Jetta, or a Camry in an identical situation, we'd be reading about your story on that respective forum.

I guarantee you that right now as I type this, someone in a Camry somewhere is turning the ignition key and the car isn't starting. Someone's Ford just died and drifted off the road on their way to work. A guy with a Subaru somewhere just found out his air conditioning isn't cooling at all today. A lady with a Nissan somewhere had a bunch of warning lights come on on the dash of their 1500 mile Altima for no reason. The world is flawed. If every time you run into one of these flaws, you decide to never do business with that firm again, you'll have a very short list pretty soon.

I sincerely hope you get resolution to your issue. This kind of thing sucks to deal with.


Some advice based on a number of years working at a car dealership:

There are people in any organization who are people just like you and me. They are good folks, who want to help the customer. Those people will generally make a good attempt to help a customer if they can. These people will often make FAR more of an effort to help a polite customer who approaches them with respect, than they will an abusive or overly impatient customer who treats them poorly. I have seen service managers take care of people who approached them politely and appropriately about getting something taken care of out of warranty. I have seen people in positions of authority give less attention or leeway to people who were abusive, rude, entitled, or otherwise abrasive.

This does not mean you have to kiss anyone's butt, or roll over, or not be persistent. But keep in mind, there is a professional way to be persistent and get people to give you what you want. Getting irate, accusatory, threatening, are counterproductive.

If you come to my store, raise your voice at me, criticize my process, and tell me you're never buying another Honda, I have little incentive to help you. You've already told me you're not coming back as a customer. You're making it a no-win for me, since no matter what I do, you're indicating that you're already irrevocably upset, and no matter what I do, you're going to roast me to everyone you know for the next 10 years. So at this point, I have little incentive to go out of my way to help you. It's already clear that no matter what, even if you leave with a fixed car, you're going to still torpedo the survey, badmouth us to people in town, crap on our Facebook page, etc.

On the other hand, if you come in, and approach me as hey, I am a good client of yours, the car I bought from you has a problem that is making my life hell. I need your help, can you please help me out. I'm stressed out, I keep getting stranded, and this is a huge issue. I would REALLY be appreciative if you could get this car sorted for me, because frankly it's unacceptable the amount of trouble I'm having with it. I'd hate to have to leave the Honda family over something like this that can surely be rectified. Tell the service guy that you'd rather give them an opportunity to handle the issue today than to go home mad and be the guy who types out negativity on their Twitter feed or Facebook page. That does nobody any good, really.

You can say it however you want it, and I've already written a book here. I'm just saying that even though you have the right to be upset, how you convey this disappointment and anger to those in a position to help you may affect how easily you get it handled.

One last thing. If you follow my advice and use the professional win-win approach, and you still get jerked around repeatedly, then you are free to pull out the stops. They've had a chance, you've followed their protocol, and it has gotten you nowhere. Social media war, etc, is fair game at that point. My recommendation is just to try the calm but firm route before dropping the atom bomb.

 

[dallasjhawk]

Im slightly confused, Honda wont do a TSB bc the code doesnt show up? This is true with almost any car maker. You have to have the code or it has to be a recall, a TSB isnt a required fix unless certain parameters are met.

You say you are unwilling to get stranded but the only way for Honda to see the code is to tow it to them when you are stranded. When you unplug the battery you are resetting the code and they cant see what happened. Does it suck yes, some dealers will do the TSB if you have pictures or video proof of what happened but if your dealer is being difficult, find another dealer or do it by the book and tow it in.

Anyhow I hope you get it taken care of and maybe next time, instead of flaming Honda right out of the boxin your first post, just create a thread that asks the questions or state your facts of your case and forum members can help. We get really sensitive when you come to a Honda forum and blast them when 90% of here love Hondas.

 

[syncro87]

Im slightly confused, Honda wont do a TSB bc the code doesnt show up? This is true with almost any car maker. You have to have the code or it has to be a recall, a TSB isnt a required fix unless certain parameters are met.

Agreed. If I understand the situation correctly, and it seems I get the same thing from it you are, then Honda is reacting the same way other OEMs would 99% of the time. To get a TSB applied, certain boxes have to be checked, a process has to be followed to confirm the fault, the applicability of the TSB as a resolution, etc.

Sponsored