S2000 vs Civic Type R on track

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Boostlag

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the porsche 918 and carrera gt have double wishbone :) Macphersons do okay, but double wishbone is better (and more satisfying to drive for many).
well carrera gt is known to snap oversteer on you with out any warning. Real. True. Widowmaker.
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boosted180sx

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comparing a s2k without aero to a CTR with all them fancy bits is not fair. It probably has coilovers and some sort of bolt ons which really doesn't do much on the F series power wise. For people who has driven S2ks, everyone will tell you how much of a difference a rear wing makes on a S2K. High speed sweepers are awfully scary in a s2 without rear aero. Given the circumstances it is clear who is going to be faster. Not to mention S2K is almost 20 years older than the CTR in technology wise too.

Also probably doesn't help that he had street tires in the back and "borrowed" tires for the front so he had far more front grip compared to rear. it makes sense that the car was so tail happy given the tire plus no rear aero.
AP1 weighs 2,800lbs with 240HP
FK8 weighs over 3,100 lbs with 306HP
you can't just look at the hp value. The S2k makes that hp at like 8000 rpm and peak torque somewhere around there compared to the CTR which does it much earlier. Straight line speed is a night and day difference btwn the 2.

all depends on the driver also, I believe the driver of the s2k is more experienced.
from his youtube description:
"With a pair of borrowed front tires and extremely raised front suspensions, I found myself battling against my good friend Brian from BaoHouse Racing and his spanking new Civic Type R FK8 for the Group N class win at Hondameet VTEC Club. It's Turbo VS NA. FWD VS RWD. The young VS the experienced"

I'm assuming CTR is the young and the S2k is the experienced. Shows how great of a car the S2K is/was when ppl are still talking about it/comparing it 20 years later.
 

J35W2

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To each their own I guess. That s2k looks amazingly fun. The go-kart like responsiveness to the throttle and steering, the edge-of-knife balance.



the porsche 918 and carrera gt have double wishbone :) Macphersons do okay, but double wishbone is better (and more satisfying to drive for many).
I totally get the go-kart like responsiveness & knife-edge balance, but I'm not a good enough driver to appreciate a loose back-end like that. I don't have enough money to have a dedicated track car, nor enough to fix a track car that appears to want to spin you into the guard rail or drift flat spots onto your rear tires. Big fun for folks that can afford it. I'm your typical wanker with a DD that I rub with a diaper (actually Microfiber Madness Crazy Pile.)

My point was that the CTR is not any faster on a track than the (20 year old) S2K. It just gets around the track in a much different, composed way. Both are impressive from either side you look at it.
 
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Before you all start. I've owned a AP1 and AP2. If you want a real sports car drive one of those before an FK8.
Well that is true, but I traded in my 2nd MY2002 Yellow AP1 for my CTR...
too many cars... something had to go
 

JackieD

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Hi all, this is Jackie, driver of the S2000 :)

A lot of what you guys said was indeed correct. I couldn't push as hard through the faster S-curves, but was able to close up a lot under braking just because I had better brakes and weighed less.
We do plan on re-doing the battle again, once both of our cars are at our best, the Civic getting new brakes and more camber while I'll have my CR aero and proper 71R tires!
Thanks for the support, appreciate it!
 


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It's all tires and driver. Those are the two biggest factors.
 
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I never took my S2000s out on a track, since I don't live what I would consider "close" to a track. Plus my wife does not get happy when I do mention doing this, and she is probably right, she usually is. From an HP to weight ratio 10.3 for the CTR and roughly 12.75 for the S2000, it does make sense that the CTR would be faster.
But, no-one will ever be able to replace the rush to 9000 rpm that the AP1 has. The AP1 and AP2 were purpose designed cars, and probably one of the best and most affordable sports cars ever made. I plan on one day getting a CR, which will be my 3rd and final S2000.
To the CTRs credit it is quick, there is more horsepower and more available in there, it is more "practical" than the S2000, and from my experience with both it seems that it would be as fast around a track as an S2000. I reminds me more of my NSX in that it is kind of "boring" compared to the S2000. It just goes, and there isnt a lot of drama associated with it.
 

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It's all tires and driver. Those are the two biggest factors.
Yeah, I would think having 245's up front when it's supposed to have 215's would've messed with the traction balance between front and rear
 

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Don't forget ambient temperatures. Summer temps & hot lapping the CTR will heat soak the engine in no time. Full Race dynoed their CTR in Arizona & pulled 276HP & 260TQ.
 

gtolio

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Don't forget ambient temperatures. Summer temps & hot lapping the CTR will heat soak the engine in no time. Full Race dynoed their CTR in Arizona & pulled 276HP & 260TQ.
Yeah, but that's probably at the wheels, which makes it close to advertised numbers at the crank.
 


J35W2

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Yeah, but that's probably at the wheels, which makes it close to advertised numbers at the crank.
Wheel HP is all that matters on the street/track. Crank HP is only good for marketing & magazines. I brought it up because someone mentioned that the CTR was putting down close to 300HP/TQ at the wheels.

Hot lapping in 90+ degree heat will kill the HP/TQ numbers for the CTR.
 

boosted180sx

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Yeah, I would think having 245's up front when it's supposed to have 215's would've messed with the traction balance between front and rear
I am not sure of his tire set up but most s2000's run a 245 or 255 non staggered so i'm sure the balance because of tire size wasn't an issue. I'm sure it was more due to the grip difference btwn the front/rear pair shifting the cars bias towards one side along with the lack of rear aero.
 

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Nice , cool to see your on here , i was the CW CTR at the track!
 

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Ive always gotten the sense the S2000, esp the AP1, was very challenging to drive fast. I can imagine it not being forgiving if you dont drive it smooth and having to shift a lot all the time on a track. Never have driven it, but I would imagine it being far less forgiving than say a Miata.

Regardless, its a terrible shame Honda didnt continue building it.
 

josby

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Ive always gotten the sense the S2000, esp the AP1, was very challenging to drive fast.
Yeah, they made suspension changes to improve high-speed behavior with the introduction of the AP2 in 2004, and then again in 2008.
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