Lacking Character - My (long) Si Review

ericc191

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I have been driving an Si since 2002 with the EP3. I just picked up a 2017 Si sedan and really enjoy it as a daily driver. The interior is vastly improved over the 9th gen, too.

I will say, though, my 2006 Civic Si Coupe is still the one I'm most fond of. Damn, that thing would scream as you floored it and carved up Napa Valley so easily.

Still, I'm quite pleased with the new Si (minus the rear.. the **** were they thinking with that triangle exhaust?)
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Gerothius777

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This is the conundrum that I struggled with when it came time to actually put my own money down for it - something press reviews never have to do.

People (not saying you, but people who are less openly critical of the Si) will say
"The Si has never had luxury features!"
"The Si isn't about comfort! It's about driving!"


Yet when people bring up that Honda replaced a great K-series motor with a far less interesting L15, their defense is
"This Si is more refined!"
"This Si is a better daily driver! I can't commute in the older ones anymore!"


Yeah, and you know what makes for an even better Civic every day? A regular Civic.....Touring model loaded with features....a Touring/Sport Touring (or even just any HondaSensing equipped vehicle) is an even BETTER commuter than the Si with very little sacrifice in performance.

In fact, "refinement" is the defense that everyone says for the Si, including Honda. And THAT'S the problem. It's a cop out answer for a car that could and SHOULD be so much better. If "refinement" is what you're looking for in your next Civic - the Touring/Sport Touring is loaded with it, absolutely LOADED.



And that's the problem - if those are merits for defending the 2017 Si - what happened? How has Honda lost focus on what the Si should be...

Great cars are more than the sum of their parts. This one isn't. It merely is the sum of its parts.

The Civic Si practically created it's own market segment - practical dailies that have TONS of sportiness and edge. For 2017/10th gen, Honda seemed to have created "just enough", but forgot why we forgave a low-torque, 200hp engine in a Civic in the first place - because despite it's numbers, the (old) Si's were just SO MUCH FUN.



Yup, exactly! The main reason I decided on the ST hatch in the first place - but part of me still wanted to like the Si, so I still gave it a chance. My deal still stands at the dealership. I keep thinking I could still go get it.

But I think - ok I got the Si now. It needs more torque/power. I need to change out the cheap cloth trim. I need to throw better tires on it. And THEN, it might feel special. And THEN I'm getting good use out of the LSD. And THEN it feels like a sports car hidden in a Civic. As it is now, it just feels like a manual Civic and nothing more. When I took my first drive in a used Si, I didn't care what was on it, what was done to it, what needed to be done to it - it was just so eager and fun as-is.

Engineering Explained's review really hit it home for me on my conclusions - also helps because he was with Carlos Lago, probably one of the best journalists from his videos back on MotorTrend. Carlos is never afraid to show emotion and excitement when driving something, but there really wasn't anything to talk about on the Si. You could see it in his face.....as if the whole time he's thinking "yup, this is a 200hp turbocharged Civic with good suspension". In fact, hardly any journalist/press had a genuine smile on their face walking away from the Si - it was merely, "this is nice". I never got a sense of "I need to have one", "I would totally buy one" from any review - something you CAN see from reviews of the FRS/BRZ, FiestaST, and other cars that really struck emotional cords.



The CVT practically gives this L15 it's own personality and is a perfect pairing. It may be a small engine with a meager turbo - but when it gets going it just never ends. It's like a hyped up bunny that never stops. An effortless shove that keeps pulling and pulling and pulling and pulling. And most of all - it feels modern, as in "this is how you get the most out of an engine", for both performance and MPG. You want power? You get ALL THE POWER, ALL THE TIME. You want to just drive to the next point? Ok sir, I'll handle stop and go. You combine that with all the other features/tech, and you get a car that truly feels modern. Not just more refined - modern.

And even in manual mode, it shifts "gears" fast enough to be useable/enjoyable - and this is coming from someone who drives a dual clutch Evo X (the best DCT sub 40k out there).
 

Gerothius777

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I traded in my Sport Touring for my Si, well because the Sport Touring was the most boring car I have ever owned except for its looks. It was nice to have all those options (which for most part were never used) but I personally never needed them. When it tried to steer for me or correct me I couldn't wait to turn it off. The CVT is amazing for commuting but drives like a boat motor. No shifting just throttle. No reward factor for me. CVT paddle shifts do not feel natural but virtual. Not a true sense of control.

Only option I would add to the Si is leather. That would be it. The rest of the car is amazing. I have owned all Si's since 92 and this by far is the most rewarding of all even with out i-VTEC or just VTEC. The Sport Touring is a nice car but not a drivers car.

+9psi Hondata Flash Pro in Sport mode for fun and normal mode for 40+mpg. I added the HFP front lip and side Skirts from the dealer to make up for the looks factor. So pretty much like any opinions they are all personal and circumstantial. I never looked back and have no regrets trading in my Sport Touring for my Si.
 

Gerothius777

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From Sport Touring to Si. I was so happy that the Si drove so much better than the Sport Touring. So I'm pretty sure Honda's market research did well enough. Si's are selling very well in my area.

Honda Civic 10th gen Lacking Character - My (long) Si Review IMG_0698.JPG
Honda Civic 10th gen Lacking Character - My (long) Si Review IMG_0264.JPG
 
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Design

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The dealkillers on the Sport Touring are the consumer oriented bolstering, lack of LSD/ADS, and CVT standard on USDM models. The hit I took in "refinement" is well worth the trade-off for driving engagement.

After driving the Si for 5 weeks, I feel the powertrain is quite good; a strong balance between DD appeal and performance. The issue is the relative lack of an induction/exhaust note during deceleration and cruising. It's not terrible, just noticeably absent compared to other cars in this segment (including the GTI).

It's a gripe I can easily live with. To each their own. :dunno:
 


Gerothius777

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I don't care how many times you say this, but it will always be a lame excuse for the 2017 Si

Engines may have gotten smaller, but they have all gotten more powerful. They have all gotten more thrilling to drive.

The Si has not. They merely addressed "man Si's make no torque down low" as if that's all we expected from a new Si. Once boost kicks in, nothing else happens. That small shove when boost kicks in is ALL that happens throughout the rpm range. Power delivery is so linear and undramatic, it's boring. You can get so much more excitement with the gas pedal these days for $20k-$25k.

That's a waste of a fantastic engine, waste of a fantastic drivetrain, and a waste of a fantastic chassis.



Who? Who in the world expected that? They gave that mindset up over 5 years ago with the 9th gen Si. We knew the 1.5T would be in the Si for years. By the time the Si arrived, there was nobody expecting it to rev to the moon. What people were expecting was something different - not the same old linear, meager 200hp with a low rpm torque bump.

The 2017 Si completely reminds me of the Genesis Coupe. A sporty car for people that think a sporty car just needs to have "good power and handle nicely".

But most people who spend their time on a forum and other places sharing their enthusiasm for cars on the internet - they want a car that can be described in more words than "drives nicely".

Enjoy your Si all you want. I'm not going to tell you that you bought wrong. But don't go around telling people they're wrong, stubborn to change and that it's all change for the positive when it's clearly not - there are changes here that people did not like.
Take your own advice. My god.

Good luck modding your CVT above +6psi. Also Keep beating on that transmission that's not made for aggressive driving while you autocross. Repair bills will be coming. Honda does check for reflashed CPU's too.

Si owners can upgrade their clutch if needed to handle more HP and torque but CVT owners..............well i'm sure you already know that answer since Hondata already warned people months ago.

So I'm thrilled you love your car. Guess what we love our Si's. Happy driving.
 
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exyia

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Take your own advice. My god.

Good luck modding your CVT above +6psi. Also Keep beating on that transmission that's not made for aggressive driving while you autocross. Repair bills will be coming. Honda does check for reflashed CPU's too.

Si owners can upgrade their clutch if needed to handle more HP and torque but CVT owners..............well i'm sure you already know that answer since Hondata already warned people months ago.

So I'm thrilled you love your car. Guess what we love our Si's. Happy driving.
Sorry I didn't like your car :rolleyes1:

Try to condense to single concise posts next time. Unless you needed an hour to vent out your frustration at my opinion, then my apologies.
 

Gerothius777

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Sorry I didn't like your car :rolleyes1:

Try to condense to single concise posts next time. Unless you needed an hour to vent out your frustration at my opinion, then my apologies.
Sorry I didn't like yours. At least with my opinion I actually owned both. You base your whole long thread on owning one and test driving another. I can base mine on a real life day to day experience.

Like I said these are all opinions but I prefer my Si and so do many others.
 
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T_A_H

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My opinion and I think everyone will agree

If you want an excellent daily driver that has decent power and handling, the Si is perfect.

If you want a performance machine, you need the Type R.

I think the demographics are distinct enough that even if money wasn't an issue, people would still choose the right car that suits them.
 


ClemsonPatriot

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I appreciate your opinion and I respect it. However, I found the Si to fit my style better.

1) 6MT was a must. No CVT.
2) LSD was a huge bonus
3) I HATE leather seats. Fabric was my personal preference. Plus the buckets seats are very comfortable.
4) I wouldn't say normal mode is useless. If the Si didn't have the "sport" mode, I would still be happy with it.
5) LED headlights? I could care less, honestly.
6) If your +6psi Hondata tune made your hatchback feel just as fast as my stock Si, I'd say that's a win for the Si.
7) You additional "tech" in higher level Civic trim are an absolute waste in my opinion. I know how to drive, I don't need lane watch.
8) A lot of your complains about the power-band actually insult your Civic more as it has even less power than my Si (stock for stock).

Again, I 100% respect your opinion. However, the Si had all of the features I wanted in car at the perfect price. And at the end of the day (comparing MSRP to MSRP), the Si has a higher value dollar for dollar; again in my opinion.
 

Gerothius777

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I appreciate your opinion and I respect it. However, I found the Si to fit my style better.

1) 6MT was a must. No CVT.
2) LSD was a huge bonus
3) I HATE leather seats. Fabric was my personal preference. Plus the buckets seats are very comfortable.
4) I wouldn't say normal mode is useless. If the Si didn't have the "sport" mode, I would still be happy with it.
5) LED headlights? I could care less, honestly.
6) If your +6psi Hondata tune made your hatchback feel just as fast as my stock Si, I'd say that's a win for the Si.
7) You additional "tech" in higher level Civic trim are an absolute waste in my opinion. I know how to drive, I don't need lane watch.
8) A lot of your complains about the power-band actually insult your Civic more as it has even less power than my Si (stock for stock).

Again, I 100% respect your opinion. However, the Si had all of the features I wanted in car at the perfect price. And at the end of the day (comparing MSRP to MSRP), the Si has a higher value dollar for dollar; again in my opinion.
I would guarantee the SI will have a better resale value. They always have.
 

skycrapper

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Agreed. Resale value is amazing. MSRP vs resale value over time is the best I've ever seen between the Si, GSR, Type R and RSX Type S. A mint 06 RSX Type S with low miles will still cost you 12-15K easily
 
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callmehandsum

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Sorry I didn't like yours. At least with my opinion I actually owned both. You base your whole long thread on owning one and test driving another. I can base mine on a real life day to day experience.

Like I said these are all opinions but I prefer my Si and so do many others.
Haha, best post in this thread.
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