I think I messed up... Test drove a GTI today!

JYR

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With the offered discounts on the GTi, I think one could buy a GTI and get out of it in 12-18 months for little to no money lost.
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gtman

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I've been checking around locally and dealers are selling 2016 base model GTI's with the manual transmission for around $21,000. That's like $6,000 off sticker.

Pretty tempting, but I think I'm holding out for the Civic Sport Hatch.

But man, that GTI deal is hard to resist. 258 lb/ft of torque!
 

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I've been checking around locally and dealers are selling 2016 base model GTI's with the manual transmission for around $21,000. That's like $6,000 off sticker.

Pretty tempting, but I think I'm holding out for the Civic Sport Hatch.

But man, that GTI deal is hard to resist. 258 lb/ft of torque!
Off topic a bit...

I really like the golf sport wagon but a little scared about reliability ..think it would make a perfect family car...
 

takemorepills

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Off topic a bit...

I really like the golf sport wagon but a little scared about reliability ..think it would make a perfect family car...
For 2017 VW just introduced the Sportwagen S 4motion, and it comes with the 1.8T and a DSG for about the same price as an Impreza. I know everyone bashes on VW reliability, but our Imprezas have NOT been "typical Japanese car" reliable at all. My wife prefers AWD wagons, so choices have been limited last decade or so. 2 of her 3 Imprezas have had alarming problems, one of which was a failed HG before the 42mo lease was up! (one of the examples of when a lease is a GOOD idea as the factory warranty expired at 36 months on that car)

I mean, who else even competes in the lower priced AWD wagon/hatch bracket? I'm trying to talk her into a Civic Hatch Sport with an extra set of winter wheels/tires...but if she doesn't go for it (she thinks the CivicX Hatch looks strange and not at all like a wagon, which I agree) we'll probably pick up a Sportwagen S 4motion.

With a piggyback and a downpipe the Sportwagen S would rip!
 

Stock_07

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The GTI is the most reliable VW. The Golf that it's based on has pretty bad reliability. Honda's new car trouble average is 15/100 which can include infotainment issues along with real issues. The GTI average problems is 22/100, of which 50% is infotainment/trim issues. I think VW as a whole is like 53/100, near the bottom 1/3 of reliability ratings. Mini is far worse than anyone.
GTI enthusiasts know VW is an unreliable brand, and the theory is that the heavier duty GTI/R drivetrain is leading to better ratings. It is what it is. GTI owners are more than willing to throw a stage 2 tune on which invalidates the drivetrain warranty.

Going just off reliability surveys, which includes infotainment issues, don't be surprised to see 2016 CivicX being reported as unreliable also, even though aside from infotainment issues the CivicX will probably be extremely reliable.

Also remember horsepower breaks things. The GTI makes a ton more power than rated. And a 2.0T Si will probably also make enough power to break stuff which will affect the reliability ratings.
I have a 2016 TSi and its a great car, where did you get that the TSI has pretty bad reliability?? I haven't heard any 1.8 owners blow turbos, where as GTI owners have. I do like honda and will probably get a 2018 Civic si when it comes out, but in terms of quality of paint and interior golfs are miles a head of civic.
 


takemorepills

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I have a 2016 TSi and its a great car, where did you get that the TSI has pretty bad reliability?? I haven't heard any 1.8 owners blow turbos, where as GTI owners have. I do like honda and will probably get a 2018 Civic si when it comes out, but in terms of quality of paint and interior golfs are miles a head of civic.
I.....don't.....know. Maybe I have been drinking the "bash VW kool-aid"?? I think the TSi, like the GTI had ONE early issue. With the GTI, it was a weak version of the turbocharger, which VW made good with and upgraded everyone's GTI, even the tuned cars, they did it no questions asked (maybe dieselgate motivates their corporate/customer conscience??)
The TSi had a cam shaft defect where the cam ears that drive the fuel pump would shear, causing instant power loss/dead engine. Didn't follow up on the remedy for that. That's all I have heard.
 

Stock_07

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I.....don't.....know. Maybe I have been drinking the "bash VW kool-aid"?? I think the TSi, like the GTI had ONE early issue. With the GTI, it was a weak version of the turbocharger, which VW made good with and upgraded everyone's GTI, even the tuned cars, they did it no questions asked (maybe dieselgate motivates their corporate/customer conscience??)
The TSi had a cam shaft defect where the cam ears that drive the fuel pump would shear, causing instant power loss/dead engine. Didn't follow up on the remedy for that. That's all I have heard.
The GTI was a part of the early recall. The is a civic forums and I do like the new 10th gen civic but people need to sometimes venture out and see whats out there. I did with my vw and I can say the quality is better then Honda. I will most like get into a 2018 Si. You guys might say, why not GTI and that's because here in canada its almost 40k.
 

takemorepills

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The GTI was a part of the early recall. The is a civic forums and I do like the new 10th gen civic but people need to sometimes venture out and see whats out there. I did with my vw and I can say the quality is better then Honda. I will most like get into a 2018 Si. You guys might say, why not GTI and that's because here in canada its almost 40k.
Yup, Canada GTI and Golf R are priced so close, makes one wonder why anyone in Canada buys the GTI.

When I test drive the CivicX Si, I'll go to the dealer in my GTI, then I can see "whats up" with these new Hondas. That'll be when I decide to buy my GTI after lease or swoop up the new Si. Hoping the Si can satisfy me, because I have been a long time Honda guy (from the 90's)
 

Stock_07

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Yup, Canada GTI and Golf R are priced so close, makes one wonder why anyone in Canada buys the GTI.

When I test drive the CivicX Si, I'll go to the dealer in my GTI, then I can see "whats up" with these new Hondas. That'll be when I decide to buy my GTI after lease or swoop up the new Si. Hoping the Si can satisfy me, because I have been a long time Honda guy (from the 90's)
Same here.ef civic, Rsx, 8th gen civic, 9th gen civic and 9th accord. I guess we both have to wait. Congrats to original op with the focus to St.
 

djasonw

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I've owned a VW and Audi and they're extremely well built. My only issue with them is the cost of maintenance. I also think the VW GTI lacks any type of curb appeal style wise. It's looked virtually the same for the last dozen years.
 


silverrascal

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I own a MkV (2008) GTI 4-door and when it was still fresh the car was a dream to drive. Downside? Premium fuel. High cost of maintenance. After warranty maintenance is crazy expensive unless you try and do it yourself. After around 80,000 miles, I had the car in the shop nearly every 4-6 months.

High maintenance is what partly drove me to get the 10th Gen. Civic. I have no regrets. I still have the GTI and everything has been fixed - the last was a failed PCV valve.

I still haven't decided if I'm going to sell it off or just let it sit in the garage. I drive it once in awhile still. Set the car to Stage 1 tune and she's still fun to drive but it's nice to know I don't have to rely on her as a daily.
 

takemorepills

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I've owned a VW and Audi and they're extremely well built. My only issue with them is the cost of maintenance. I also think the VW GTI lacks any type of curb appeal style wise. It's looked virtually the same for the last dozen years.
Agreed, the cost of dealer maintenance is like 4x most other vehicles. As an enthusiast, since I usually do my own maintenance, it is essentially the same cost for parts/supplies. But yeah I am not likely to take it in for dealer work....well maybe the DSG service I'll do at a VW shop.
My coworkers couldn't tell what year my 2016 GTI was when they saw it. They asked if it was a used car. I really appreciate how restrained the design is, though. It really reminds me of my favorite Civic Si hatches from back in the day! The new CivicX has too many swoops and creases in random places, which I think won't age well at all. But then again, the 2016 GTI doesn't look much different than a 2003....so there's that.
 

takemorepills

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I own a MkV (2008) GTI 4-door and when it was still fresh the car was a dream to drive. Downside? Premium fuel. High cost of maintenance. After warranty maintenance is crazy expensive unless you try and do it yourself. After around 80,000 miles, I had the car in the shop nearly every 4-6 months.

High maintenance is what partly drove me to get the 10th Gen. Civic. I have no regrets. I still have the GTI and everything has been fixed - the last was a failed PCV valve.

I still haven't decided if I'm going to sell it off or just let it sit in the garage. I drive it once in awhile still. Set the car to Stage 1 tune and she's still fun to drive but it's nice to know I don't have to rely on her as a daily.
I don't mind premium fuel, it really isn't a deal breaker for most cars I have owned. 80K miles before problems crept up, eh? I only get about 6K a year on my vehicles, so my GTI should be pretty reliable for 13 years! Honestly though, it'll be interesting to see how turbo sporty cars hold up in the long run. The MS3 had its fair share of issues, and the Mk7 and Focus/Fiesta ST are too new to know. And of course we'll have to see how Hondas 1.5T and 2.0T fare over time. I predict they will be statistically less reliable than the old school Hondas.

Speaking of old school, my 30 year old Prelude never needed to be towed or repaired. Just typical Honda maintenance, 2 clutches, 3 timing belts and the usual oil changes, fluid changes tires and brakes. It just recently started to dribble oil from an o-ring at the distributor and the lower radiator hose (original) finally gave out.
 

CTR

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If you're so enamored with your VW why are you even on this forum? I've been reading many of your negative comments on the 10th gen Civic in multiple threads. It's like you're trying to justify your GTI purchase by bashing on one of Honda's most successful car launches in years.

German and Japanese design practices are entirely different. Germans are all about adopting technology before it's ready or perfected.

Why are nearly all German cars so bad once their warranty ends? It's because all they care about is the first purchase. They don't care about the long run - only that new car purchase. I doubt many systems are tested beyond 60K miles worth of accelerated life. It's why most of their cars drop in value 50% in 4-5 years.

Why do you think Honda was the last of nearly all manufacturers to adopt turbochargers? They waited until advances in turbo design allowed for their use without affecting Honda reliability.
 

Troy Jollimore

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Hate pointing this out, CTR, but you're pretty much wrong on all counts.

Honda was trying to stick with NA power to make a point. Their engines are awesome, but they finally decided not to be left behind. Now someone just has to tell Toyota... ;)

Many German cars run many hundreds of thousands of miles just fine. The 2000 Passat I just sold was still almost like new.

This is the BEST one! You look at the tech in a German car, and it's ALL last generation! They don't do anything until it's proven, unlike the Koreans. Even the M-B S class has quality, tested tech.

He's here because he's probably like I was. A Euro fan that loves the performance and feel, but is having a hard time justifying the price and maintenance versus a VERY impressive CivicX!
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