High end Audio Install in AU Spec Civic RS

[jaykan2k]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone can help clarify a few things before I start investing in some gear to replace the factory "Premium" sound system i have in my Civic RS (I'm from Australia so the equivalent in the US should be the Touring model). Firstly, my apologies if this has already been discussed but I haven't been able to find anything on the forum that suits my needs. As the car is also fairly new in Australia, not many workshops have had the chance to do any installs as of yet (that i know of).

Front doors have had both inner and outer skins lined with Dynamat and although sound has improved slightly, I am still not a fan of the system. For me its extremely harsh and the sooner i can replace the system the better as i spend approx 2.5 hours a day to and from the office.

System plan

• 2 Way active Focal Utopia Kit 6
• Helix 6 channel with DSP
• Tossing up between the following Subwoofers IDMAX10 / Morel / Brax / Focal
• Will only be running front stage so not concerned about rear fill.

Concerns

• What amplifier is running the factory set up?
• If i remove this amplifier what are the consequences? Specifically with Apple Car Play and Navigation prompts coming through the centre speaker. Is it best to keep the factory amplifier and run a secondary amplifier to power and process the above mentioned components?
• Using the factory tweeter pods, how large can the tweeters be before custom fabrication is required?

Would appreciate anyone's help on any of the above but if you have some experiences to share or bring to light something I haven't even thought of, that would be great.

Thanks

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[josby]

Sounds like a nice setup you have planned! I'm looking at the eight channel version of that Helix DSP/amp myself.

In the Touring, there's a digital SPDIF signal (format unknown) from the headunit to the factory amp. That amp is in the passenger kickpanel on the right side of the car. Since you're right-hand-drive, I'm not sure if it'd be in the driver's kickpanel or moved over to the passenger's kickpanel on the left.

Music is carried on the SPDIF, but other sounds like navigation prompts are on separate lines (analog, I think) and mixed together inside the amp. So yes, you probably want to keep the factory amp and install your Helix after it.

The center channel presents complications. If you ditch the center speaker, you need to make sure your DSP can mix the center sounds into your left and right channel. But even with DTS Neural disabled, there's still music played through the center, and that signal doesn't have the same response curve as the door channels. So I'm not sure how well a DSP would handle mixing that in.

Another option would be to retain the center speaker and let the center signal pass right through the DSP/amp. That consumes one of your amp channels, though. And since it plays music, not just nav sounds, you'd probably want to upgrade the speaker to something that will sound as good as your new left and right speakers.

Just leaving the factory amp connected to the factory center speaker wouldn't be an option, since the music coming from it would sound bad compared to your new stuff, and the DSP probably introduces some audible delay too.

For the tweeters, here are some measurements I took. Also, here's a pic of AudioFrog GS10's installed. Looks like they're about as large as you could go while retaining that factory ring around the tweeter. Ditching the ring would get you a few more millimeters, maybe as many as 10-12mm. You can find the dimensions of that tweeter on AudioFrog's site.

 

[jaykan2k]

Wow, thanks very much for the detailed response as well as the links to existing topics.

Do you have any idea how large the center speaker is? I might just buy a single mid range speaker and replace the factory one in that case. Depending on the size, i might also change direction in what the front stage will consist of.

Also, does anyone have a digital copy of the service manual for these cars to assist in taking it apart?

 

[josby]

It's an 3.15" (80mm) speaker in the center. I think there's room to fit at least a 4" in there, though. It's easy to get it out - just slide your fingernails under one edge and pry it up. It's just pressure fit in there. No screws or plastic clips or anything.

 

[jaykan2k]

Been giving it some more thought today and I think I will get the corresponding midrange for whatever set i decide on just to keep the system happy.
Ill have to get an additional monoblock to run the sub and let the Helix run the front stage with all 6 channels.

Today I was also thinking, If i was to use a standalone DSP like the Bitone for example, would I be able to control all the factory speakers and EQ to taste?
So, if I was going to adjust the centre speakers on the Bitone, would that only change the characteristics of the centre speakers or all?

 

[josby]

For what it's worth, I'm currently investigating whether the wires from the headunit to the amp that carry the navigation/HFL voice signals are normal analog audio. If so then it might be possible to tap into those and run the signal to a small separate amp that's connected to the factory center speaker. If that will work, then it would allow keeping the factory center and have it ONLY play the voice prompts, so one wouldn't need to worry about music playing from the center. I'll let you know what I find.

I don't have experience with the BitOne or any of these high-end DSP's yet, so I am not sure. Some of them, like Mosconi, Helix, and JL Audio TmK, will let you download and run the tuning software on your PC even if you don't own the hardware yet, so you can experiment with the controls in advance. Not sure if BitOne's tuning software is available like that or not. I do know that at lease someDSP's do let you adjust every output channel individually, but not sure if BitOne is one.

 

[josby]

Ok, I tested this today and it's good news. You can tap wires B13 and B14 from the pictured connector on the headunit (or, presumably, C5 and C12 on the other end, at the amp, though I didn't try it) and get just the Navi/HFL audio by itself. Tapping the beep signal there isn't necessary, because the amp mixes that into the left and right channels. And bluetooth phone calls are mixed into left and right as well. So this is just needed to keep from losing the navigation voice and the hands-free command voice prompts.

 

[DrewMan]

Wow glad I didn't get the RS!

Sounds like a real pain to upgrade!

I'm currently collecting parts for my audio build.

 

[josby]

For sure. But it's worth it for me to be able to have a center channel without having to cut up my dashboard.

 

[jaykan2k]

Wow glad I didn't get the RS!

Sounds like a real pain to upgrade!

I'm currently collecting parts for my audio build.

Tell me about it man. I never really go for the "Premium Audio" but this was already part of the package.

 

[jaykan2k]

Ok, I tested this today and it's good news. You can tap wires B13 and B14 from the pictured connector on the headunit (or, presumably, C5 and C12 on the other end, at the amp, though I didn't try it) and get just the Navi/HFL audio by itself. Tapping the beep signal there isn't necessary, because the amp mixes that into the left and right channels. And bluetooth phone calls are mixed into left and right as well. So this is just needed to keep from losing the navigation voice and the hands-free command voice prompts.

Wow, thanks for this Josby

 

[jaykan2k]

Wow glad I didn't get the RS!

Sounds like a real pain to upgrade!

I'm currently collecting parts for my audio build.

It'll be worth it in the long run
Going to deaden the A pillars tonight. Getting some rattling in it lately so some Dynamat should fix it!

 

[DrewMan]

It'll be worth it in the long run
Going to deaden the A pillars tonight. Getting some rattling in it lately so some Dynamat should fix it!

I'll be sound deadening my front doors, rear tray and trunk when I do mine. Just waiting for all the parts to arrive then doing it all at once so I only have to take it apart once.

 

[nathanzachary]

The only thing I would like to add here is about your speaker choice. I love Focal and have some of their floorstanders/surrounds in my home (Aria 948s with surrounds, and Sopra 2s). I would recommend going with the Expert line or even the K2s over the Utopias. It's personal preference, but I find the Utopias to be a bit tinny.

 

[jaykan2k]

The only thing I would like to add here is about your speaker choice. I love Focal and have some of their floorstanders/surrounds in my home (Aria 948s with surrounds, and Sopra 2s). I would recommend going with the Expert line or even the K2s over the Utopias. It's personal preference, but I find the Utopias to be a bit tinny.

Thanks very much for the insight. To be honest this had been one of my concerns when my installer had recommended them (he runs the Kit 7's in his demo car) but he is adamant that with the inclusion of the DSP, we would be able to tune this to taste. The last two sets I have previously owned were the Rainbow Vanadium (Phase Plug version) and the Audison Voce's so I do like the warmer sounding drivers.

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