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[Doc_C]

Is there a chance that the suspension kit will lower the car and the 0 + 0- just means that it's not adjustable by pushing the sport button?

They have adaptable dampers not springs. Ride height is determined by springs not dampers.

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[boosted180sx]

Is there a chance that the suspension kit will lower the car and the 0 + 0- just means that it's not adjustable by pushing the sport button?

considering it says normal and sport mode descriptions on that, I doubt it. Pushing the sport button doesn't adjust height, it only adjusts dampening. It's either an upgraded shock with different rates or just the shock upgrade. Now they might just be using that picture as advertisement so we just have to wait and see.

 

[Design]

No offense (sincerely), but I'm surprised so very few can feel a difference in the damper valving. The F/R transitional behavior is much, MUCH more responsive to even small deviations. Perhaps some who come from aftermarket suspensions were expecting more NVH/road feel. In any case, VW's DCC tune is very similar but softens the valving a bit more, IMHO.

If there's truly no change in ride height, the HFP springs/dampers are "required" to compliment the heavier (or lighter) wheel/tire combo. A heavier wheel needs more rebound tuning to keep it planted to the road. Alternatively, less rebound to prevent a choppy ride over rough transitions.

That said, I'd be surprised if Honda didn't tweak the ride height ever so slightly. My 2 cents...

 

[KnoxTn17Si]

considering it says normal and sport mode descriptions on that, I doubt it. Pushing the sport button doesn't adjust height, it only adjusts dampening. It's either an upgraded shock with different rates or just the shock upgrade. Now they might just be using that picture as advertisement so we just have to wait and see.

Yeah, I know the shocks doesn't adjust height. I was wondering if there will be springs with the kit that are lowering the car.

 

[grantsjc]

Even if the height has 0 increase or decrease, that doesn't mean that only the dampers are going to be an upgrade. There's more to springs than just the ride height.

I'm not sure if that is the case here but they can technically change the spring rates and it'll still be considered an upgrade without a height change.

Seems odd that they wouldn't reference springs. I'd love a higher spring rate at stock ride height but to me that's very doubtful. Suspect these are just more aggressively valved dampers. Today with gas filled dampers it's easy to artificially increase spring rate with shock itself. I do that with my adjustable JRZ dampers on my race car all the time by increasing bump.

For street car SI is at perfect ride height for me. I don't have to worry about steep driveways or speed bumps at all.

I would like to know who makes HPD damper and what level damper they use. Assuming Japanese damper? Anyone in the know?

My dream would be to see High quality damper company make a adaptive damper for Si that allows sport button control. A good adjustable shock should give better ride than stock and way firmer control when turned to sport. The OEM shocks come up short in very aggressive sessions for me .

 

[boosted180sx]

Seems odd that they wouldn't reference springs. I'd love a higher spring rate at stock ride height but to me that's very doubtful. Suspect these are just more aggressively valved dampers. Today with gas filled dampers it's easy to artificially increase spring rate with shock itself. I do that with my adjustable JRZ dampers on my race car all the time by increasing bump.

For street car SI is at perfect ride height for me. I don't have to worry about steep driveways or speed bumps at all.

Yeah I don't think there will be springs. Doesn't even show the spring on the illustration lol. Only shows the shocks so it seems like just a damper upgrade to me.

Either way, time will tell. Just have to wait and see.

 

[dmitri]

No offense (sincerely), but I'm surprised so very few can feel a difference in the damper valving. The F/R transitional behavior is much, MUCH more responsive to even small deviations.

Yeah even if you just find a relatively uniform stretch of a gravel road, it should be much easier to feel the difference. Even my wife and kids felt it -- I did a "blind test" thing, i.e. I told them "here's setting 1, ..., and here's setting 2, ..., which one is softer?" and they correctly identified which one was SPORT.

 

[TheRealWizzy]

Ya i

Yeah even if you just find a relatively uniform stretch of a gravel road, it should be much easier to feel the difference. Even my wife and kids felt it -- I did a "blind test" thing, i.e. I told them "here's setting 1, ..., and here's setting 2, ..., which one is softer?" and they correctly identified which one was SPORT.

Ya I definitely notice cursing down the highway on these shitty Wisconsin roads you really feel the bumbs in the roads.

 

[grantsjc]

Yeah even if you just find a relatively uniform stretch of a gravel road, it should be much easier to feel the difference. Even my wife and kids felt it -- I did a "blind test" thing, i.e. I told them "here's setting 1, ..., and here's setting 2, ..., which one is softer?" and they correctly identified which one was SPORT.

I have a few cars with adaptive dampers and can say Si has the least difference between sport and normal. My Porsches go from comfy to track car stiff. Si gets a little more responsive. I would have liked more aggressive sport mode.

 

[dawsonj87]

I have a few cars with adaptive dampers and can say Si has the least difference between sport and normal. My Porsches go from comfy to track car stiff. Si gets a little more responsive. I would have liked more aggressive sport mode.

Your Porsches are in totally different categories of car! I agree that I felt very little difference on my test drive of the Si, but I think that Honda has always been great at bringing simple yet effective go fast bits to the market. The suspension I run on my Civic is comprised of Koni orange shocks and struts and Eibach Pro Kit springs. It's stiff and handles very well. But it is also very well damped, so it isn't Focus RS stiff. It's slightly stiffer than stock, and it added exponential drivability. I firmly believe that the Si does this well from the factory. The sport mode is slightly stiffer than stock, and balances drivability and compliance.

Think of a demand curve with respect to revenue. You can increase price to maximize revenue, but if you continue increasing after your demand is unit elastic (that is, revenue is maximized), sure price will go up, but revenue will actually go down because of the decrease in demand. Stiffness adds sportiness to a point much the same as price increase adds revenue to a point. With what the Si is meant to be (a sporty, reliable DD that can be lived with for years), I think that Honda hit the nail on the head with the active dampers. But, as any good engineer would say, there is always room for improvement. I'm sure we'll see something great come with the HFP kit and/or the refresh.

 

[grantsjc]

Your Porsches are in totally different categories of car! I agree that I felt very little difference on my test drive of the Si, but I think that Honda has always been great at bringing simple yet effective go fast bits to the market. The suspension I run on my Civic is comprised of Koni orange shocks and struts and Eibach Pro Kit springs. It's stiff and handles very well. But it is also very well damped, so it isn't Focus RS stiff. It's slightly stiffer than stock, and it added exponential drivability. I firmly believe that the Si does this well from the factory. The sport mode is slightly stiffer than stock, and balances drivability and compliance.

Think of a demand curve with respect to revenue. You can increase price to maximize revenue, but if you continue increasing after your demand is unit elastic (that is, revenue is maximized), sure price will go up, but revenue will actually go down because of the decrease in demand. Stiffness adds sportiness to a point much the same as price increase adds revenue to a point. With what the Si is meant to be (a sporty, reliable DD that can be lived with for years), I think that Honda hit the nail on the head with the active dampers. But, as any good engineer would say, there is always room for improvement. I'm sure we'll see something great come with the HFP kit and/or the refresh.

Lol! Thanks for letting me know about different class of cars. Had no idea that my civic commuter car is in different class than my Porsches. . However I have other econo cars with sport adaptive dampers where the damping was significantly different . Just saying If Honda went to trouble of putting adaptive dampers on the car would have thought sport would be sporty compared to normal mode. I don't even bother using normal mode in Honda. Just put it in sport and leave it there. I can't do that in Porsches or would lose my fillings.

Agree on car as that's why I bought it. Great value but still some elements of car just make me scratch my head. Car is pretty aggressive for average driver and sport button really doesn't sharpen much. So you have to be enthusiast to start as ride is fairly stiff for non enthusiast driver. But maybe that's a marketing ploy to get us to buy real dampers as part of HPD program. Think about it ..if they did a good job with OEM adaptive shocks why would we all be psyched about HPD adaptive damper upgrade on a car that's just hit market?

 

[dmitri]

I'm sure they added them as a selling point more than anything (and as a "taste of things to come"/teaser of the new direction, with Si being the first ever Honda with those, IIRC)

Personally, don't care much for it as I always switch to SPORT right away. For that reason I would rather them just go with non-adjustable kind and instead put that money into adding leather or something, but it is what it is, I'm not complaining. I still look forward to driving this car every single day. It's not perfect (nothing ever is), but it's really freakin' awesome where it counts.

 

[grantsjc]

I'm sure they added them as a selling point more than anything (and as a "taste of things to come"/teaser of the new direction, with Si being the first ever Honda with those, IIRC)

Personally, don't care much for it as I always switch to SPORT right away. For that reason I would rather them just go with non-adjustable kind and instead put that money into adding leather or something, but it is what it is, I'm not complaining. I still look forward to driving this car every single day. It's not perfect (nothing ever is), but it's really freakin' awesome where it counts.

Agree but for mountain roads I drive on first part of my commute roads are really rough and it would be cool to have normal mode that soaks up bumps on real rough sections. Then have sport mode that really firms up things in smoother twisties as sport mode dampening just falls short when i push the car hard. Shocks just can't keep up. On smoother longer turns it's awesome . Think my drive really exploits weakness in cars. My Mini S with Konis handled fast stuff but car was awful on bumpy stuff. I'm just hoping someone comes out with adaptive damper that puts sport into sport mode.

 

[dawsonj87]

Lol! Thanks for letting me know about different class of cars. Had no idea that my civic commuter car is in different class than my Porsches. . However I have other econo cars with sport adaptive dampers where the damping was significantly different . Just saying If Honda went to trouble of putting adaptive dampers on the car would have thought sport would be sporty compared to normal mode. I don't even bother using normal mode in Honda. Just put it in sport and leave it there. I can't do that in Porsches or would lose my fillings.

Agree on car as that's why I bought it. Great value but still some elements of car just make me scratch my head. Car is pretty aggressive for average driver and sport button really doesn't sharpen much. So you have to be enthusiast to start as ride is fairly stiff for non enthusiast driver. But maybe that's a marketing ploy to get us to buy real dampers as part of HPD program. Think about it ..if they did a good job with OEM adaptive shocks why would we all be psyched about HPD adaptive damper upgrade on a car that's just hit market?

Didn't mean to come across hostile; I've been studying statics and electrical physics all day, so I'm a tad frustrated with my state of being. I do see where you're coming from though. Marketing is a ridiculous thing, but I do have faith in Honda as a company and have always been blown away with how genuinely fun and special their cars feel compared to competition. This Si is no exception. I'm super interested in the HFP package, and can't wait to get more details. The second I'm out of engineering school, a refreshed Si will be mine!

 

[elusiveaura]

So I went back and looked at the stuff HondaPro Jason wrote again in August about the HFP package and it struck me:

BREAKING NEWS!! Honda will have a HFP Package (as a dealer installed accessory) for the 2017 Honda Civic 5 door hatchback including lowered Suspension, upgraded Brake rotors, Red floor mats, lower trim kit, plus badging AND a HFP package for the Civic Si trim With upgraded active dampening system!! BOTH COMING THIS FALL!! #HondaCivic #Honda #CivicSi"


He mentions springs for the hatchback and active dampening system for the SI. Is that how I'm reading it? If that's the case, the SI will only get an upgraded active dampers. (which makes sense reading the college hills honda site) showing only a picture of that.

Guess I need to start looking into Eibach springs if thats the case.

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